Eli

Are we good? Please don't talk about the weather. Please don't talk about the weather. Did you guys see that...

Clara

Is it warm out?

Eli

It's actually crisp, very crisp, which I feel like I've said multiple times.

Trey

I actually had an apple cider donut this morning.

Clara

Wow. Tis the season.

Trey

Which is earlier every year.

Eli

Now that summer is over.

Clara

Well, like, quantifiably, it's earlier every year, right?

Trey

The Pumpkin Spice Latte rollout has inched its way into early August.

Eli

With its grip on fall.

Clara

It has metastasized into early September.

Eli

I wanted to talk about. Did you guys see that the hawk tuah girl, Haley Welch is starting her own podcast to compete with Day One FM, called Talk Tuah, under Jake Paul's label. Oh, he's got a label. Yeah, it's called Betr—B, E, T, R, I think.

Wow, yeah. I mean the best relationship pointers. Sounds like she's only got one so far. So can't wait to see where she just where she takes us from here. You know.

Eli

You should talk talk.

Clara

No, time to segue.

Eli

I mean, no.

Trey

I know it's ironic to say here, but let us take away podcast equipment.

Eli

They should cost hundreds of 1000s of dollars, right? These microphones.

Trey

Fewer microphones, fewer relationship advice.

Eli

I do think that talk tuah is pretty good, because it's kind of like talk to her, you know, talk tuah, and like a southern draw. No? No one else picked up on that?

Clara

Well, yeah, I did. I picked up on the rhyming aspect of it.

Eli

I mean, they do. What's interesting to me is like, oh, media's dead. Media's dead. Well, explain this, you know, explain this, anyone.

But is a new podcast called talk tuah from Jake Paul's media company...

No, I think it's further decay for sure.

Trey

I wonder though, in the same way that you know, for a political candidate, they go out and do you know these polls and see if they would poll well or like people would vote for them. Do they do the same thing for these multi million dollar podcast deals where it's like the hawk tuah girl is very popular with a certain segment of person, and people are dying to hear her relationship advice.

Eli

Do you know how many young men have a Saturdays or for the boys flag hanging in their room Trey? This is, this is like catnip for them. I think what it is is like, and I was talking about this earlier, is that brands are like, continuing to bet on these one hit viral entity, one viral entities.

Clara

Just peeing into my cup.

Trey

Did you hear what happened in the bathroom? What happened in there.

Clara

We should leave it in though. I think that's funny for the audience, right? Continue on. Eli, sorry.

Eli

I don't even know where I was going with that. I think what I was saying is that brand brands are continue. Who cares at this point? Brands are continuing to bet on kind of like one hit viral stars. I'm actually surprised at the longevity of Haley Welch, because she joined the crop of like, kind of, also one hit viral wonders, a la that kid Harry, who was like, singing it off tune to celebrities and the looking for the man in finance girl, but it seems that she, and maybe it's just, you know, the other the other people, more behind the scenes, she has continued the longevity of her 15 minutes is for 15 seconds or whatever, is actually quite impressive. I will be tuning in just to, just to hear.

Trey

Will you?

Eli

It's like, I know every episode. Please can I stay for one more episode. But anyway, I thought I had to kick things off with that, because it is, it is outstanding. Reading that sentence, hawk tuah girl starts podcast under Jake Paul's label. I mean...

Trey

Called talk tuah.

Eli

Called talk, talk—we'll get that sample. Then you know what I'm doing.

Clara

I know exactly what you're doing.

Eli

All right. Clara, well, going down the list, this is going to be, again, a hodgepodge episode we're just riffing on, you know, getting the getting the wheel back in motion. I know you have here that salt burn. There's something about salt burn.

Clara

Oh yeah, this is just something that I thought was funny. We don't have to spend long here. But basically, I had never heard of this before, but there is, like a live auction thing called VIP fan auctions, and they sell merch, and, well, not merch, even just like things weren't on set and props from TV shows such as Viking Valhalla. But then they also have movie merch from Maxime and most recently, saltburn. But among the things that you can get are it's just like horny jail type offers, Jacob Elordi's, boxers. It's on the website if you click onto saltburn, and then you open the catalog, and then you register to bid.

Eli

Do you have 15 minutes later?

Then set your max bit at $3,000 for the bathtub you would you too would find the...

Eli

Anything on your cal flex today? Nah sorry I'm looking at this Dropbox folder.

But I mean, it is shocking. I mean, they have only 100% reviews on Trustpilot. But people, I was looking at some past auctions, and people have shelled out like $3000-$4,000 for movie merch, etc. I just wonder what they're doing with it. Where it all goes.

Clara

Is it a Halloween thing? Or just kind of cosplay? Some of it, like I was talking to Trey earlier, like, I think some of the costumes from Viking Valhalla from Maxime and Shirley, that's cosplay, or maybe wear that about in your daily life. But some of these things, like the rubber duck from saltburn, like, was anyone's loving that movie enough to own a piece of film history.

Trey

Right.

Clara

I guess is my question. But time will tell.

Trey

They're also not even, I mean, if you think of saltburn, there's not many moments where you're associating, like, with an item that...

No, I mean, they are selling like, what was it? Jacob Elordi's costume at the end, with his wings, the sort of Romeo and Juliet esque wings, the horns, lots of pairs of boxers, I will say, which I don't think you should sell.

Trey

Especially if it was like prevously worn by...

Clara

Also the medical intubation tubing and face rig that's Rosamund Pike wears at the end.

Trey

But that's where I'm like, What are you doing with face intubation equiptment?

I don't know but someone is gonna do something, I guess.

Eli

All right, well, the other thing I wanted to quickly get out of the way, arguably, one of the more I don't know pressing cultural topics right now is the return of legendary brotherly duo.

Trey

Oi Mister. You be dead.

Eli

Nope. Oasis, tried to get tickets. They're doing a show. Actually, they're adding two more shows at Wembley.

Clara

But UK fans are prioritized.

Eli

Because we got to get a VPN. I think we might have to anyway. The larger point is that tried to get tickets. Couldn't wait in some stupid queue. Is this what it was like to be a Taylor Swift fan?

I was telling you guys on Slack, there were all these tiktoks of like Taylor Swift girlies, like helping their dad get Oasis tickets. Like they know how to do it.

Eli

There's an early day for us.

Clara

I know, get one on Fiverr.

Eli

The thing I want to bring up, besides my disappointment and not acquiring tickets, although, if they do come to North America, I will try and try and go but see them, Are they even allowed here? They're not like blacklisted at the border for... For what, for what no for being Manchester City fans, no.

Trey

Export ma culture.

Eli

The thing I want to bring up is that this has inevitably spawned numerous headlines, the likes of which are more about like, here's what the Oasis return reunion means for brands and like, you know, it's shooting up searches for Oasis.

Trey

Wait, my former colleague wrote this.

Eli

Oh, really, I'm not knocking the writing. I'm just saying, like, must we do this? You know what I mean? Does it need to all be fodder for like, how brands can tap into the Oasis return, you know? Yeah, I maybe, maybe I stand on an island here.

You don't, you don't. I'm right there on the island. I think...

Eli

There's room for two, three if you want to join it.

Trey

But you have to name five Oasis songs.

Clara

Yeah, exactly.

Eli

I think. And again, maybe this is like, maybe this is just annoying. And like, yeah, everyone's like, who cares? But it's like, oh, fandom is as easy as a Pinterest board. Now it's like, ah, come on.

Trey

You're such a boomer.

Eli

I'm just saying.

Okay, I do think that there's kind of two things with like the Oasis phenomenon, slash, anything that happens now, where it is fandom is as easy as a jersey, or it's as easy as merch, or it's as easy as getting the Liam Gallagher haircut, you know, and like, where people sort of, like, latch on to whatever is trending, but that, I think, exists somewhat separately from the whole phenomenon of how brands can best leverage this moment. And the moment is like Liam Gallagher and Noel doing it like we're I just don't know.

Eli

The only smart thing that's come out of this is him being featured in the stone Island campaign, which I thought was great.

Clara

Yeah, that was good.

Trey

Are you gonna buy?

Eli

I don't think I'm gonna buy the patch. I'm not buying the patch. But anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest. I don't know. I'll keep you guys posted if any tickets are acquired.

So no one should come to you with a brief for how might we activate at Wembley.

Eli

Look, I'm sure there's gonna be social team has 15 seconds with Noel Gallagher, you know what are you gonna do?

Clara

Get cursed out?

Eli

Yeah.

Clara

I mean, that's a good brief.

Trey

Is it more because brand integration into, like, cultural kind of tentpole reunions is just the thing now, when it wasn't in the past? Is that sort of, like...

Eli

I think so I also, but like, I think we're, we might be turned rounding a curve here. And I think the, and I don't know that NATO is essentially a brand, but them tweeting peace in brat green, I think might be, might be the cap.

Trey

I also though think that might have solved it. We're done.

Clara

I'm feeling better.

Eli

NATO, as we sit here today, I'm actually feeling much better and more secure.

Yeah, I'm glad that NATO is able to speak in the vernacular of Gen Z like, I think that that's the part of it that is sort of annoying and patronizing with a lot of the how brands can best activate against this is I'm like, I don't think that that's why people don't like your brand or don't like I don't think that people have an expectation of you showing up in any way. I don't think people want to see NATO understand digital culture, you know?

Eli

I mean, you're right. No.

Do you want NATO to understand digital culture?

Eli

I don't I want them to commit to Article Five! What I will say is, I would like to think that this is a huge win for that poor intern who has probably had to go 35 rounds of feedback on this, maybe they even pitched it in in like early June, when this was all happening, you know.

Trey

I guess though, okay, so like to look at this objectively in a non cynical way. Do you think there is a piece of culture that you got interested in because it was speaking your vernacular at that point in time. Maybe it was an immature vernacular. But, like, did you discover something by way of, something like, objectively corny, like a blog, or...

It's different, or, like, what's I guess making me sad is less, sort of different. I like, I think culture, either getting co opted or like, coming about it in corny ways, is kind of one thing that happens and is to some extent inevitable, like you have to be, you know, 17 or 18, and learning about what you're gonna like from somewhere. And I think that we can parse whether or not those things are like, of an elevated or like official enough taste level that they should be doing that. But I think what's depressing is the idea that kids are finding out about this stuff, like via a brand activation. Do you know what I mean? That's like, kind of completely Toothless and essentially just profiteering off of something like, I think even if someone has a genuine, if fleeting interest, that's totally fine, it's more of just like the brand piece of it, like, why are you the mechanism by which we should all be dealing with this? Unless there is like the stone Island thing, which makes sense.

Trey

Okay, but if there was like a funnel per se that led you towards your whatever cultural knowledge. And the top of the funnel was the brand activation, where it was like, oh, McDonald's Happy Meal featuring Oasis bucket hat. And you, as a child, purchased that, and then you were like, Oh, this bucket hat's cool, but I don't know what Oasis is. Then you listen to a song, and then you get into it, and then you develop your taste, and then you become so tasteful that that top of funnel moment is so corny to you, but like you had to get there somehow. I'm just like playing devil's advocate.

No, I see what you mean, though. But it's like, how much do we want? Like in the future world...

Trey

Like that green font maybe is someone's ticket to applying for a job at NATO in the future.

It's like, see yourself in NATO.

Eli

It's very difficult to be—speak to Ukrainians. We don't have to get into that on this pod. You know, it's difficult to get, it's difficult to be welcomed into NATO.

Clara

As a nation, right?

Eli

As a nation, I know I took it and ran with it.

Clara

Okay.

Eli

I think, Trey, to your point, no one is really innocent. I'm sure I have been drawn to some things by which other people make that's so corny of you. And like, whatever.

Trey

Well, no, I think, like, you know, I what we talk about a lot on this podcast, in a roundabout way, in a judgmental way, is like taste level. As a taste level thing, a question of taste. So I do think it's interesting, you know, in kind of dissecting how you develop that taste. And I think for most people, whatever you get into it's either, like, introduced to you via a friend, organically, because you discover it and you're so cool and in the right places, or it like penetrates through mainstream culture in like, a corny way, via perhaps a brand activation. And I'm not saying that, like, brands are the saviors of culture or anything, but like, I do think there are some things that I. Are brought to us via algorithms, via brand activations that allow you to like, Discover or dig deeper and go like that extra level until you do develop taste and do you realize things are like mainstream or corny, like the sporty and rich vibes?

Eli

Alright stray. I wanted to quickly talk about how Jules LeBron, the creator behind the...

Trey

You can't even say it. Look at this, the taste level is too high. It's like caight in his throat.

Eli

The creator who whatever said very demure, very mindful, is seeking a trademark for that phrase.

Trey

What was this? Say it again? What was the phrase?

Eli

No you heard it. We don't need that, but I don't know. I actually don't know that I have that much of a take on this. I suppose that, like it's just another example of creators looking to get credit and ultimately financial gain, although gain although gain makes it sounds a bit more extractive

Clara

Well, and I feel like we talked about this with Adam. I mean, this was, this was pretty, very demure, very mindful, but with the hawk tuah girl and not to bring it back to her, necessarily. But I think it is partly to a phenomenon of, you're a creator. You come up with something that really takes off, and then you have a bunch of other people and brands either making merch with that phrase on it, or co-opting it in their own. And you don't really, and not to say, maybe you have a right to profit off of everything that you say on social media. But like, I do get why people are coming from the standpoint of, like, Well, why don't I get compensated in any way for this, and I feel like it's like a flashing on and off conversation. Like I feel like...

Trey

Well, I hate people say this, but I will also say it where I think, like this is the world that Andy Warhol predicted. You know, where, like...

Eli

Yeah, I no no way knocking this, by the way, it just like the I feel like the news cycle of the past week between BBC News, parentheses, world official Twitter account saying brat summer is over declares, Charlie, XCX, the talk tuah pod launching the very demure trademark. I don't know, where are we going? Baby Gronk dropping a diss track on the Rizzler and the Costco guys. It's coming full circle, by the way, and I'm happy that I was able to introduce you both to the Rizzler and the Costco guys at this very table.

Trey

Yes, I'll never forget, you know, you had to do it to them.

Eli

Are they coming up on your feed at all?

Trey

Oh, yeah, organically, the I sent you something from it.

Eli

The BTS, well, apparently that guy has had his own podcast called, like, just men talking or something like that.

That doesn't happen enough, thank God.

Eli

And now he's seated, he's or trying to parlay that into something for his family, I'm sure you know, with the best intentions in mind.

Trey

Well, yeah, I think we're like, we're not quite at the point where the systems have been put in place for the people who are spending the majority of their free time coming up with these like trends that can be co opted by brands that can't spend the time, you know, developing stuff or throwing spaghetti at the wall, yeah, either, like, metaphorically or literally.

Clara

Coming up with big justice.

Trey

Yeah. And so for the people that do, and yes, the bar is low, but for the people that do, there's no sort of like turnkey way to kind of monetize or market yourself, yeah, as the originator of something, whatever that like thing might be.

I know it's kind of a fickle world out there for content creators.

Trey

But I think that's, that's my prediction. This is, this is going to happen soon. I think there's going to be like, more of a rigid pipeline in maybe even, like one year's time, where it's like creator goes viral for whatever thing they originated, and immediately there's like this hard pivot to monetization, to trademarking, to merch, to agents, to opportunities, to podcast deals, to etc, that they don't have to, like, set up themselves in the kind of more traditional way of some agent or something reaching out to them because they went viral. Like...

Eli

I know what you mean, taking it upon themselves. Like, you don't think Jules LeBron had their own agent being like, you got a trademark this.

Trey

No, because that doesn't happen as fast because, like, people who work at these whatever, CAAs, UTAS, whatever, like agency, represents creators. I don't even know, I don't think it happens fast enough, like, in the same way people at, like, record labels, I know this for a fact are like. Rolling through tiktok to find the next bona fide Spotify hit. Paging. Dr, beep. Paging doctor beat. Yeah, literally. So the criteria is so high, okay, so I heard about this recently. So like for music labels, they are looking obviously, for like, people who have bonafide fan bases built in are not quite big enough, but have like, enough of a hit, perhaps, that circling Tiktok to be able to monetize and want to sign to a label. But there's a bunch of labels who are all competing for that exact same thing. So there's like, this very narrow kind of aperture of, like, record labels all coming for the same person and all the same people on Tiktok, trying to create that, like, perfect storm where they can, like, be adaptable, or whatever they can, like, get signed to something. And I think that there's less competition. Like, I don't think there's, you know, these agencies set up exactly in the right way that, like, anyone's pouncing on very demeanor, very mindful, signing her, trademarking it, doing merch, yeah, like, there's that that hasn't been built yet, because it's still so new. And I think all these examples you keep bringing up because you love big justice, it's like, it's like, there's, we're seeing more and more of people capitalizing on their like, junk behavior, to be honest, but good for them, you know, like it's, it's being figured out. It's messy, it's annoying to see and witness. Like, boohoo. You didn't get your very demure trademark, but she is paving the way. Jules LeBron out here, paving the way for the future of social media.

Eli

Do you think you could trademark hawk tuah?

Clara

I think she was tried, right?

Trey

I'm sure. Well, we can look at the database. It's all public info.

Clara

I mean, I think what I'm curious about, I think, to your point, is where some of the for lack of a better term, creator economy stuff, ends up landing because I feel like during the pandemic, or when that phrase first started going around, a lot of it was about sort of influence and entertainment that like brands need to be looking to creators is like the mouthpiece for whatever, like Gen Z is watching Tiktok, like it's television and like, that was the big like moment. And I feel like now part of it is, like these sort of tiny pieces of IP have like, insane staying power, and they could be sort of the foundation of some type of career with longevity. Yes, feels like at least the logic of trying to copyright these things where it's like, this isn't going to be the whole thing, like, I'm not going to be hawked to a girl forever, or I'm not going to be very demure, very mindful forever. But maybe that first step is worth either trying to preserve or, like, put actual kind of parameters around, in a more efficient way.

Trey

Yeah a structure, because I think we can see four years down the same pipeline, as an example, Addison Rae, who was, like, famously on Jimmy Fallon demonstrating Tiktok dances in like, 2020, or 2021, right? Like people thought she was so corny, and she is, like successfully pivoted via shadowing Courtney Kardashian through, like, a placed friendship, allegedly, I don't know, and then kind of becoming cool under the shadow and guise of Charlie XCX to now releasing her own song at the urging of Charlie called Diet Pepsi now Spotify Apple Music. But do you think, and now that song has like, global streams that are getting better and better every day, and she is taken seriously, and has been like in a couple of different photo shoots, magazines, whatever, like her career. It's like, if you saw, I don't know if Hawk to a girl or like Jules LeBron, does it right, they can become an Addison Rae.

Eli

Do you think that the hawk tuah girl is gonna have like, a spread in, I don't even know, 032c, shot by like, Fredrick Owens.

I think if she plays her cards right, like, and I think that's the whole thing with this, though. Is like that the first step like Addison Ray going, like, on Tiktok. Like, she's not still doing that shit. Do you know what I mean? Right? Like, it's just like, successfully, exactly, if you can translate that, into something else.

Trey

If you can, like, create, originate.

Eli

Few can, though, very few can.

Well that's the whole thing. But I feel like that's always true in an entertain, it's like people that are like, one hit wonders, or it's like, where did that person ever go? Like, that's always true.

Trey

You're a one hit wonder, until you're a two hit wonder.

Eli

Like a mojo top 10 videos.

Most doubted, most hated, yeah, like I, and I also do think, and maybe this kind of goes towards what we have here at the bottom of this dock of like, the very thin line between hate watching and enjoyment watching. But. I think that the sort of cringe factor to cool factor axis is so in, like Addison Rae, sort of successfully, I think, crossed over from being cringe to being sort of, I guess, known as a being, like a very self aware and funny celebrity, like irony pilled celebrity. So like, I think if I was hawk tuahs agent, I would be like, maybe that's your path. Maybe that's where we're taking you. Is like, you start out on this kind of Jake Paul crazy bender thing, but like, maybe you start hanging with Charlie and maybe, you know what I mean, like, you can, you could build a career out of it. I think that as of now, though they're just to Trey's point earlier. Doesn't seem like there's...

Eli

Did you just look up Bobbi Althoff?

Trey

No, because this is my point. So like, yeah, if you originate a piece of, like, quote, unquote, microculture and become known for a specific thing. So for example, well, two examples, Bobbi Althoff or Althoff, but like, she kind of became viral for her, like deadpan interviews, usually in her bed or whatever.

Clara

And maybe, maybe not having sex with Drake.

Trey

Right. And now is, like, quote, like she's kind of got, she's done basically.

Eli

She's in the not like us, music video.

Trey

Like her career is, kind of, I don't know, over at this moment in time, versus an Alex Cooper call her daddy, who's like, leaving one platform to get like $100 million to go to Sirius XM, like, these are the two different kind of trajectories of creating, like, a small moment or something becoming known for one thing and capitalizing on it in the right way or the wrong way.

Eli

Yeah, Alex Cooper is not nearly as insufferable as Bobbi Althoff.

Trey

Well, yeah, again, that's like a question of taste.

But I also think it's like a question of your own, like, do you have more than one bit? Do you know what I mean, which I think it turned out like Bobbi Althoff in this again, I don't mean to hate on her, but it's like.

Trey

And I would say hawk tuah girl does.

Clara

And hawk tuah girl maybe has some range, and only because, and we'll find out from her relationship advice.

Trey

Right, yeah we'll find out soon, like paging dr. beat in like four years. We'll see if this works. But no, but I'm genuinely curious. Yeah, I think because she had the wherewithal to, like, completely rev up her career based on a whatever, nothing moment, even to this point, has proven that she has some kind of, like business acumen or talent to share beyond obviously making sexual noises.

No, but I agree, like, I think, and Alex Cooper too, kind of pivoted, in her own way, from being sort of a Barstool. I think it's fair to say kind of a mean girl to being like girls girl like, call her daddy, like, having every wronged woman from Love Island onto her podcast. Like, I think it's possible, and people have short term memories. You know, it's not like, I don't know, you're not wed to anything, but I think that it does kind of demand a lot of flexibility. On behalf of whoever is recently famous, you know, can you do more than hawk tuah?

Trey

Well, I yeah. I think that what's interesting is like throughout all of this kind of social era, I would say, starting in 2020 and stuff with the well 2019 with the rise of Tiktok, but specifically in 2020 with the pandemic. Etc, you create all these parasocial relationships with these creators that seem kind of larger than life to you personally, and then a lot of them disappear, like this one girl I was thinking of, and I looked her up to see like, remember Princess milky? Does anyone remember Princess milky?

Clara

I'm looking it up.

Trey

Okay, well, you will when you look her up. But essentially, I was like, What is where is she at? What's she doing? And she's still making content, but it's just like, not penetrating the feeds.

Eli

No idea who this is.

Clara

I vaguely feel like, I recognize her.

Trey

I just think it's like a weird, new phenomenon that we're all experiencing where it's like, Where was that person I was watching almost every day in 2021.

Eli

We'll have to find out on the next episode when we check back in on big justice, on talk tuah.

Trey

The next viral sensation.

Eli

Who else? Who else is popping up on my feeds.

Trey

Eli Williams.

Eli

No, not me. But before we do go, I do have one book suggestion, everyone should go read Endurance by Alfred Lansing, great, great story, great journey.

Clara

Don't you dare spoil it here.

Eli

No spoilers, no spoilers about the greatest piece of leadership and adventure of all time, Ernest Shackleton, crossing Antarctic.

Clara

Well, I recommend everyone watch season six of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.

Eli

Trey one recommendation?

Trey

I recommend everybody watches couples therapy. Yeah, wow. It will look we do some psychoanalysis here of some crazy creators, but like Orna.

Clara

Would you get psychoanalyzed on television?

Trey

I get, yeah, absolutely.

Clara

I've never thought of it as being something that was tempting at all. But Orna is so good,

Trey

I was like.

Eli

Your beaming.

Clara

I'm literally grunting ear to ear.

Trey

No, I had like, a complete I did not want to watch it because I refuse to kind of see people exploit their like trauma for entertainment.

Eli

Have you been on the internet?

Trey

Well, yeah, and I try to avoid most parts of it, but I think, like, it's really not like that.

Clara

No, it's very tastefully done.

Trey

It's very tasteful. And Orna is like Isabella Rossellini coded like, yeah, quiet, calm.

Clara

How did you feel about her braided hair look? I really liked that.

Eli

All right. All right. All right. Endurance, season six of the real house wives of new york and couples therapy.

Clara

Well, I was kind of kidding, but...

Eli

All right.