Eli

Day One FM! Thank you for tuning in, we have a special extended version of the pod today. So we're gonna skip our usual intro and just go right into it. But before we do that quick little preamble to give you the lay of the land. So, in this pod we are joined by Sara Wilson. She is a journalist, she is a strategist. She also recently came out with the brand yearbook, the inaugural edition of the brand yearbook, I might add, it is a special kind of version of a trend report. She has written with her colleague, Michelle Goad, and in it, you'll meet what they're calling the class of 2022. The brands that connected with Gen Z last year, and the ones that they think have the biggest opportunity to do so in the year ahead. So, you know, we'll chat our own high school superlatives. We'll chat some of our favorite examples that she has discussed in the report. We'll also do a little discussion on the prediction area, and get Sara's takes on the biggest trends and insights to follow in the year ahead. So yeah, tune in, and looking forward see you there.

Sara Wilson, welcome to the pod are you doing today?

Sara

Oh, I'm so thrilled to be here.

Eli

We are very happy to have you after a long conversation. This is maybe a year in the making. There's a lot to get through today, we want to talk through the project that you and your colleague Michelle just rolled out want to ask about digital campfires. We'll talk to the prediction area. But first for our listeners, just if you wouldn't mind giving them a brief background brief intro the elevator pitch, if you will.

Sara

Yes, absolutely. So my name is Sara Wilson. I'm a journalist turned social marketer. I used to run lifestyle partnerships at Facebook and Instagram. Before that it was a journalist. And in 2018, I launched my own digital strategy consultancy called SW projects, where I work with different brands and publishers on all aspects of digital strategy, trying to help them figure out the digital landscape. I also write and speak and doing The Brand Year Book, which we're gonna be talking about today was one of my favorite projects I've ever done. So I'm super excited to be here.

Eli

Cool. We love writing and speaking. And that's part of our work as well. That's so awesome. So we were talking a little bit before we got on about digital campfires, which is kind of how we got introduced to you was hoping you might be able to just explain very briefly what that is. Because I think that conversation started to percolate. Like even after you were discussing it maybe three years ago and 2020.

Sara

So in 2020, early 2020, I wrote a piece for Harvard Business Review, where I identified a trend that I had seen kind of like early, but clear signs of which was younger audiences moving kind of in a subtle way away from kind of open social platforms to smaller, more intimate online spaces. And I call those spaces digital campfires, because I just think that naming something helps people understand what it is. And then identified three types of campfires kind of based on the like primary reasons people are gathering there. So to direct message one another, that's number one, number two, to connect to a micro community and number three, to participate in a shared experience like gaming. So just helping people get their heads around it. I wrote about that as something that was I was primarily seeing on platforms. So this is like we are seeing platforms that are really like checking those boxes. In the three years since I identified that trend. I think digital campfires have really exploded out of just the platform definition. And really become I call it a new paradigm for online consumption. We can talk about why I think that really morphing into this like force that really defines how audiences are connecting and communicating and experiencing and shaping culture at large, both on and offline. So it's it's a really big thing. And so I'd love to hear what you guys think about that. And we can dig in a bit.

Trey

I think that's really interesting, because I think that we've seen as we have been looking into trends and kind of what's coming next there has been like a massive shift towards, I guess the niche-ification, I guess you could call it of like subcultures existing within specific spaces. And I know you've talked about platforms and how that shift has kind of occurred. But I think what is more interesting is like how people are finding each other and connecting to each other in ways that is sort of platform agnostic and using platforms or finding new uses for platforms or digital campfires that maybe weren't intended by the creators of those things. So I'm thinking of like Instagram DM's as being like a specific place that people go to talk to their friends or, you know, Discord and Discord servers and like those subgroups and channels or even like the comment sections of substack newsletter, where people kind of, I've seen, you know, meetups happen as a result of people meeting in the substack comments. So I do think that is such an interesting place where culture sort of bubbling up if you will, to become this, like, you know, wider shift in culture.

Sara

Yeah, I hadn't thought about the comments when that's absolutely true. And I think an account like comments by celebs really got at that and sort of like, you know, captured that cultural moment. But you're absolutely right.

Clara

And I was also curious, because I know Spotify made it to the brand yearbook. And kind of to point Trey about, like, how social activities are popping up in unexpected places. I'm sure you saw this, Sara, but did the Spotify stalking, like, snooping on your crushes listening history? Yeah, I just think stuff like that is so interesting, too. Because I think like, the conversation about social communities also, like intersects with things like dating apps and things like that. And like the new ways that people especially like Gen Zer's are starting to think about like, whatever finding out if their crushs actually have as much in common as they like to think and stuff like that. Yeah, putting aside for a minute the creepiness of snooping on somebody's Spotify.

Eli

We're looking at friendly surveillance, I suppose it's like Find My Friends even speaking of something like this, like area of social interaction. And I think that's because a lot of kind of like, traditionally, social social media networks, like the social is no longer there. So it's kind of like looking for areas to supplement that, which my mind is what a lot of digital campfires are about as well.

Clara

And I guess I was also curious, Sara, just like, on social or digital campfires, and social connections between Gen Z in general, I feel like something that we talk about a lot here is just about authenticity on social platforms, and kind of like the performance of identity that changes whether you're posting on your Instagram or on your Tik Tok. And I wonder, too, with something like the Spotify stalking, for instance, if it's also about kind of trying to discover people or meet people in ways that feel like maybe more authentic and less contrived, like, maybe you're starting to get like, a clearer sense of that person, because you're seeing them as they are, and not kind of as they're necessarily like, packaging themselves to be seen. And so I was just curious if that's something you're also seeing across other platforms or?

Sara

So I think that's a really good point, I think. So when I was doing this initial research, I looked at what is what are some of the reasons that campfires are having a moment, you know, this was three years ago. So what sort of is driving Gen Z to campfires? And really, one of the reasons is looking for spaces where they can be themselves versus places where they have to have that to your point, that construction of identity. So once that was like a huge and is still a huge key reasons. And I think is part of the reasons we part of the reason we've seen the rise of platforms like BeReal and whatnot. So you absolutely nail it. I do want to just like dive into the word authenticity for a second, because I think it is maybe one of the most misunderstood, overused, like confusing words, especially for brands, I'm sure you've all been in rooms where brands are like, we have to be authentic. And I actually think it can cause a lot of confusion. So I am now saying yes, authenticity. Sure, but let's understand what it means. To me, it means are you showing up on a platform in a way that really speaks the language of that platform? So, you know, as a brand, I think of a brand like Duolingo, the one that's constantly referenced as sort of the epitome of Tik Tok brilliance. And part of the reason it works is it's not necessarily because it's authentic, although it is, but that's like, it doesn't quite describe it, like it's speaking the language of the platform. And so, you know, the, the audience will really embrace it because of that, it doesn't distinguish between okay, this is a brand I don't like it, it's almost like, alright, your speaking our language. Awesome, you know, so I think it's more about understanding the language and investing enough time and energy and in doing that, you know, due diligence to understand it. So, I do want to say that and we can talk a little bit I'd love to know your POV on that word.

Eli

Yeah, I think you're right. It's it's like community and co-creation or stuff like that, you know, it's like a lot of kind of big buzzwords that get tossed around and everyone's like, can you explain that word to me? Like I'm five because we use it in every single sentence and paragraph, etc. I think that's a great point because a lot of the conversations we have about authenticity, and like, take BeReal for example, like the main, the main like selling points It's a platform that kind of like, make social ritualistic. So you're doing it not all the time, but in set kind of increments, which I think is attractive to people who maybe want to put their phone down. And another lore, I think, is that you are allowed to kind of be yourself. It's capturing a candid moment, but I think what we're seeing is like fake authenticity. You know, it's like, wait, wait, I need to like pretend that I'm being real in this moment, for lack of a better word. But I think you bring up a really good point is like, speaking the language on platform, I think, is super unique to Tik Tok when it first started, but now I think people start using formats that they like, bring formats from other platforms on to a Tik Tok, right. Like you can start to see a lot of crossover between Reels and Tik Tok and stuff like that, which I think kind of can you get, you start to see, like Duolingo, like, who is really using the platform properly and authentic. But yeah, that's my soapbox on on the matter.

Trey

Yeah, I was just going to mention too, and I wrote an article about this for our site Perspective about performative authenticity. And I think that your definition of authenticity completely makes sense, from like a brand POV. But from like, an influencer POV, for example, there was a case in point where Prada sent these, like Christmas baubles to all of these influencers. And they were filming, like the unboxing of these product baubles, and suddenly they slip and all the baubles break, and it becomes like, a viral piece of content, because of the breaking of the baubles. And soon, people started to see a couple influencers had broken their baubles. And, you know, you're like, oh, my gosh, that's a luxury brand. Like that must be so much money. And you know, that shock of that moment became its own thing, and like took on its own thing. And I think that, to Eli's point, that sort of performative authenticity of the casual photo dump where you are trying very hard to like casual, or be authentic, kind of usurps the, like authenticity, question of, you know, what does it really mean to be authentic? Does it mean to like, try, try less, or to be more of yourself?

Sara

I think it actually means to get a flip phone, probably that's like, wherever you go, right? Why we're seeing the rise of those technologies, or lack thereof being embraced by Z's, I mean, I, I've seen this like, if you if you look on Tik Tok now I did last week, like if you were gonna flip phone, like there's a lot of activity about de-techifying. And I think part of it is answer to your question is, you know, at what point is that performance stop? And I think the answer is when you have a smartphone, it doesn't, it doesn't stop, you really have to kind of disengage, which is insane. So that's a whole other topic, but it is true.

Trey

I think that as long as we live in a culture where we are perceived by other, then you are being looked at and you perform for that audience, regardless of how involved you are with social media platforms or not.

Eli

Yeah, we briefly we were talking about Luddite clubs, I'm sure you saw that New York Times piece. And yeah, you know, Gen Z, discovering flip phones and burner phones, more or less. But yeah, it's great. So that that said, I want to segue into the brand yearbook, which is a project that you just rolled out with Michelle Goad your colleague, and I'll kind of let you speak more to that. But yeah, so I'm hoping you can tell our listeners what it is. What was the impetus behind it? What's the whitespace you guys are kind of looking to fill with a Gen Z report. And yeah, we've all kind of plucked out some of our favorite superlatives. And I'll let you speak to the superlatives there but yeah, eager to get talking about spirit Halloween, and Shien and all that.

Sara

Absolutely. Well, so okay, this was a really just a total labor of love Michelle Goad, who is a friend and a former client, actually, when she ran Gen Z strategy at Nike, we work together we met and ever since we've just been DMing, all day long. You know, our observations on all things brand. And so we just decided to parlay that obsession into this project. So the idea in the sort of white space that we saw was, you know, constantly seeing these Gen Z reports. Very serious reports on what is Gen Z thinking, What did they want? It's not to say that a lot of those aren't really well researched, and well done. They are but they're just really serious and and some of the ones that are very serious, also just felt completely wack, like a lot of them just completely off, especially the ones that don't really rely, or seem to rely on numbers or actual data, it was a lot of opinion that we just like didn't agree with. So we were seeing very serious, very earnest, I kept for whatever reason, thinking of the painting by Edward Munch, like, you know, the holding the head and the hands going to scream, and it was like the Z's the Z's, like what are they thinking, I just couldn't, I just couldn't deal with it anymore. So Michelle, and I were like, Let's do this fun project, we came up with a framing. And the framing really dictated the entire format. The framing is a 90s yearbook. Because we all love a yearbook, we all love to know who was most likely to etcetera, etcetera. And we just thought it'd be really fun not to do a best of list but more of a class of So Class of 2022. It's essentially our picks for the brands big and small, that we think connected with Gen Z last year, or have the biggest opportunity to do so either due to their market dominance, or some other kind of unfair advantage, we call it so it's not a best of, but it is kind of a, you know, our very subjective picks on on that sort of territory. And so we can dig in as however you like. That's kind of the framing. And of course, it's very y2k vibes, not only because of course, nostalgia is everything right now. We're seeing it across the board in design and products, for all things Gen Z, but because we just wanted to put our like, you know, high school yearbook photos in there and have people laughing so you'll see those in the back.

Eli

Yeah, no, I was. I was definitely scrolling through. I was gonna say my senior superlative was, unfortunately, class snoozer. But, you know, I landed on my feet and turns out everyone was maybe sleeping on me rather than the other way around. Yeah. I know. Sorry.

Clara

Holy cow.

Eli

I wasn't teeing that came to mind when I was thinking about the yearbook, which I won't disclose to the rest of the world, but maybe one one day, and we'll definitely drop it in the comments as well. But I know we all have some favorites all kick it off with Shein, which we mentioned in our prediction area as well in passing. And this one made me chuckle as most sharp elbowed fashion plate in the school yard. So obviously, I think there's a big kind of contradiction between the way Gen Z views sustainability, and the environment and obviously, not a monolith. Right. And but also with their shopping habits. So curious, like, if you could just quickly talk us through that inclusion there.

Sara

Yeah, absolutely. You totally just nailed it. So I think I hear I'm sure it like, it sounds like you hear a lot of this sort of Gen Z prizes. Sustainability above all else. And this is very important. And of course, it is to a lot, a lot, a lot of that generation, but again, not a monolith. And we see a brand like Shein that is essentially, you know, the Tik Tok of fashion. Dominating, and it is it is anything but sustainable. I mean, we think there's a lot that we know about the company and a lot that we don't know, but the lack of sustainability is probably one of the things we definitely know. So, you know, we see this as a massive, massively popular brand and you know, if you go on Tik Tok right now, and you look at Shein Hall, I think there's something like 8.7 billion views, which is nuts. And what I think is super interesting is just the degree to which the brand has deputized an army of micro influencers like none other, the speed at which they are producing clothing, the actual speed of production, kind of mirrors the speed of video creation on Tik Tok and so you have this kind of insane flywheel with influencers pushing it and doing hauls them turning out, you know, actual clothing at the speed of trends. And then, you know, actually people consuming it at that same speed. So it's, it's crazy, but there's absolutely no way we couldn't include it because it does have such a massive presence. And what we said was, what we hope happens next is that a more sustainable platform knocks them off their throne and of course that love for that to happen.

Eli

But yeah, Claire, I know we were talking right before we hopped in our proverbial booths, so I want to pass it over to you. Yeah, what was your senior superlative?

Clara

Oh, I guess I think mine was most likely to stage dive, which we? I don't remember. Yeah, I used to go. This is a very brief side note. I used to go to a lot of concerts in high school, which I realized when my New Year's like or yearbook came out was the only thing like 90% of the school knew about me, you know what I mean? Like where you get the superlative and it's like, well, this is not my life, but in anything It

Sara

Yeah like I contain multitudes like I am not just one thing.

Clara

I know I was like, holy cow, but um, yeah, I think my well, I have many favorites. But the one I wanted to chat about first, I guess was the Deuxmoi entry. Because I think I was that was the one that surprised and delighted me the most because I have been tracking Deuxmoi for like a while now I follow them, I unfollow them, I have to request it sometimes sometimes they're private. But I just thought the inclusion of it was really interesting because I think like in the spirit of thinking about social platforms, and how a lot of sort of like institutions like the gossip column, or like celebrity gossip is being like reinvented for and by Gen Z, or like Zillennial people on both Tik Tok and Instagram. I feel like Deuxmoi has been like one of the major outlets for lack of a better word to come out of that. And I totally agree with you. I think there's like, tons of potential there. So yeah, basically just kind of wanted to like pick your brain, I guess a little bit more on what you think is up next for them?

Sara

Yeah, so I've been fascinated by that company. You know, when I was we were we wanted to include a media company and like a true media company that started with media, as opposed to just a product in the mix. So we were sort of looking and we're like, okay, which ones and most of them started with product, and then expanded versus Deuxmoi. That really was, we are going to start as an Instagram account. And of course, it was this sort of notorious Instagram account for those listeners who don't know all about essentially chronicling celebrity gossip, but completely unhinged, in many ways, like, not sourced. And anyway, it was all like anonymous tips, the you know, whoever runs the account has still not made themselves public, although there was a blogger who, you know, revealed. So I just found it to be like, this is a new type of glass. We've never been here before. And yet, as a culture, we're obsessed with gossip. And so who's going to define that next generation of what that's gonna look like? And then taking it from an Instagram brand to a media brand? That's really hard? Like, that's actually not something that's super easy. You see, select companies that have done it maybe released, you know, a card game, I think, like Buckcherry did that right, just different companies have done it. But it's not easy. And I've worked with a few publishers that are trying, and it's hard. And so the fact that they've managed to expand past that is quite impressive. I don't have any special insight into them beyond what I see because they're not public. And I've not talked to the you know, whoever the founders are, right, they're still hidden. But what we said here was that I think they do need to start partnering with kind of less, let's call it exposed brands that have complementary fan bases. So I called out the the brand, Ian Charms, which I never know how to pronounce, it could be Ion Charms, which does like very Instagramy necklaces, and constantly worn by celebrities. I'm thinking about like complementary partnerships that could actually expose them to new audiences, and then actually allowing their community to come together perhaps on a channel like Geneva where they could have small group chats and talk connect, as opposed to just having their one space be Instagram. So I think there's a lot of potential there to really actually like supercharge the brand, but more than that, it was more just like, oh, this is a new template for this type of consumption, this type of topic. So I found it to be fascinating that regard.

Clara

I mean, I was so I was just gonna follow up to ask because like, I think something we are starting to see like, I don't know if you follow like, Sea Moss Girlies on Instagram.

Sara

Okay. Last night, I saw, I listened to their podcast? Yes. Sea Moss Girlies. I love there's stuff

Clara

Yes the Sea Moss Girlies or like, I think the Dewy dudes are slightly older, but kind of in a similar bracket, or like, even like the ion pack podcast, but basically like, these sort of, like, for lack of a better term, again, like media companies that are starting out sort of as like a social first media company, I think, to your point about like brand partnerships, etc. I think it'll be interesting to see like, what the ambition turns out to be and like what the scaling turns out to be in terms of like how brands do get involved authentically because I think like one of the first brand or media type of brands to start was Diet Prada. And I think their whole kind of like rise and fall and like cycle of controversy with then getting involved in brands and again, I think their position in that was really different. But I think a lot of these are sort of supposed to be like outsider, like we don't partner type of things. And so I think as they do grow and as they do partner, I think it's interesting to see like, how the community responds to that because I think to the point at the beginning about like authenticity, and sort of that sense of like we're in this together it does sort of start to complicate things as it goes on.

Sara

Yeah. I think it's a scary place for brands when you have unverified information about celebrities like I can't see a big brand touching something like that. But I that's why I think it's even more important to build have their own community to have that be a space of monetization. You know, what we tried to do with the Year Book was not only pontificate on sort of the trends and kind of speak to the consumption trends, but really try to understand, alright, like, what are the futures? What's the business future of these companies? And how would they potentially, you know, create business lines that would speak to the needs, wants, desires of this cohort of Gen Z,

Trey

I do want to talk to you about like the one and despite how you feel about Deuxmoi, specifically, the one thing that they have gotten right that brands are always kind of clamoring for is when brands are looking for UGC, on social, hoping and praying that there will be like some kind of user content created under their brands hashtag, and it's never really there and the way they want it to be. Duexmoi has kind of capitalized on that like transactional behavior of wanting to participate in something larger, they are offering their fans like a platform to be seen and heard, even anonymously. And that has sort of become the tagline of like, you know, keep me a non or whatever it is. I have unfollowed. But I think that is interesting that they have offered up this platform over to their fans in a way where they still have the keys to the car, so to speak. But they are harvesting content constantly in a way that I think brands could learn from.

Sara

That is a fascinating point. Like I've not ever thought of it that way. Yes. 100%. I think that you're absolutely on to something

Trey

And thank you. I'll be in the next Brand Yearbook. As a consultant.

Sara

I have nothing to add. I just like yeah, absolutely. Brands could learn something. But it's funny. You speak from experience. It sounds when you say all brands are kind of grasping at straws to find that UGC, you've never been in those conversations. Have you

Trey

I've never been in those conversations! My lips are sealed. But I do I am curious, I would love to talk about Chipotle. And obviously, as our client we have a lot of insight about like the inner workings which we will not be discussing, but you have said some really interesting things about Chipotle and Gen Z, their appeal for Gen Z specifically and I'm curious if you can kind of summarize what your guys's take on Chipotle is and what they could do to capture more attention.

Sara

Yeah, so I constantly referenced Chipotle to the point of like, it's like getting a little much like I need to stop but I constantly referenced them because I think they're a great example of a company that's really embraced the digital campfire core ethos, which is spinning up kind of almost experiments on different campaigns and platforms to reach different audiences and sort of all of those working in tandem together so you have a one off discord job fair you have a selling a you know, I think it was an avocado or guacamole on Depop you have product drops that are you know specifically meant to go viral like a candle based on the lemonade that everybody gets for free you know by accident quote on quote. So there's just this sense of okay, we're going to be A we're going to be really experimental and not put too much like hafter stock in any one thing. We're going to try a lot of different things. But then be we're going to actually try to reach different communities and tap on, jump on, like cultural conversations in ways that feel really fresh. And so if you're behind that, Mazel Tov, that's amazing. I'm very, you know, I'm constantly referencing it. So what what we wrote here was this, you know, that we've seen this happen again and again. And so what's next for them? Okay, well, they have this insane audience in the form of their app, they have 28 million members. You know, we did the math, that's nearly three times that of the New York Times subscriber base. And so like, if you throw in some really good strategic thinking, you could become a really incredible loyalty driven media company. And when we talk about what are the media companies that are, you know, speaking to Z's, they're not quite that yet, but they have all of the bones there to do that all of the rails rather. And so I think when you when you look at that, it's like, okay, you have an audience, how are you going to activate and so that audience and that loyalty is built by doing all those digital campfire type activations

Trey

And I love to how like all of that loyalty, people have taken steps to sign up to get updates about their favorite brands, so they're already bought in so really, the next step is like, like you said, how do you activate that audience? How do you kind of keep them coming back and that way we referenced Deuxmoi like harvesting that information, getting people involved, like surfacing ideas and platforming them to maybe this huge audience and I think that is sort of that like potential unlock that could be interesting.

Sara

Yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know. I don't think there's a one size That's all but when I saw that number, I was like, wait, what? That's crazy. That's a huge.

Trey

It's like a country!

Sara

No, like, legit. So I was I'm just really I'm so impressed by everything they do. You know, and just sort of every it seems like every time a new platform launches, Chipotle is sort of first out the gate to experiment with it, which just doesn't happen with every brands. I mean, we know that right? Like, there's a lot of fear. And so it's nice to see a brand that doesn't seem to have a much fear.

Eli

We successfully. We've done some sponcon. So

Sara

Hey, that was my authentic take

Eli

No, no it's much appreciated. Very quickly, I want to chat about Netflix, because it's top of mind, I think because streaming in general, and all of these kind of high growth companies that have been, you know, benefiting off of zero interest rates and Wall Street, not caring about the return streaming, in particular, Netflix have come through come across a bunch of headwinds. But you write, most likely to be BFFs with everyone. Netflix in particular, they've had some big wins recently, Wednesday was huge. I was reading today that people are actually are now standing up for the Ad, Ad base subscription tier. I know you talk more about kind of hoping for more IRL activations. But yeah, curious around your your thoughts as to where streaming and that world is headed to next particularly among Gen Z?

Sara

Yeah, I think the Wednesday Addams kind of case study is super interesting. And I think essentially, I think Netflix, realized they had a hit on their hands, and then essentially, like, threw fuel on the fire and in the marketing of it. So it was a little bit from what I understand is a little bit of, you know, reverse engineering virality. To a certain extent, I think that that is what the best brands are doing, which is they're seeing maybe some threads that they can jump on and then kind of doubling down or they're designing to actually go viral. Of course, you can never guarantee it. But whether it's like a product we put in here, for example, I Dew Care, which is a beauty brand that does exactly that they reverse engineer products so that they're participatory, and people can actually create content around them hence making more opportunity to go viral. But why I mentioned it here in the context of Netflix is because the Wednesday Addams, Adam show one Wednesday, it has been a phenomenon for that reason. You have kind of this, like confluence of factors, nostalgia, you know, sort of that emo sensibility and vibe which does really well on Tik Tok, you have the dance piece, which had a huge viral moment. So you have just a lot of these things, which are the ingredients, I would say but then Netflix marketing really brought them together really well. So that was that was just sort of like a latest and greatest example. I think overall, there's so much conversation about Netflix shows that Netflix doesn't capture and so for for my from where we stood, it was like okay, how do you actually get in front of that be the platform to host those conversations? have those conversations, not just on your social, which they've always been really strong. They've always been great on social, but can they build technology to actually allow participation or enable participation in their shows and whether it's creation, conversation, etc? And yes, we said IRL because I think people are craving that. I think people are really really craving anything IRL, especially after the last few years. So how can you actually bring those fan experiences to life? No, they've done one offs very successfully Stranger Things and whatnot. But can you actually create community hubs are places where fans can go and connect and hang out like I think about LA that LA chain you guys know it's called Chain it's like a cult favorite restaurant. I referenced it here. That is a great example of a pop up that attracts like minded people. Could you do the same thing or similar thing for Netflix?

Trey

I I was curious if you had seen the Shrek raves that are currently happening around the country. There are like, there was an article in New York Times called raving for Shrek The Swamp comes to Brooklyn. And obviously it's like a nostalgia hit. But people are dressing up as strike characters and like raving and stuff. And in a way it sort of captured like the imagination of Gen Z. I think that movie was already kind of a cult favorite and cult hit but in a similar way like is there a Wednesday Addams dance off and I think there maybe was and I maybe saw something but it's so funny how these like cultural moments can be capitalized upon in ways that are so unexpected to create these real life moments of connection

Sara

But couldn't you see like Netflix okay, like they have the power to actually create like go big with the Wednesday Addams down south like I think there was one but it was fan organized. Right? So if it did happen, so how what would it look like for Netflix to get involved? Maybe it even goes to network TV. Maybe it's IRL, like, think about what they could if they threw real fuel on the fire of that and brought those experiences to IRL. I think there's just so much potential there. But what you just said about Chuck reminds me a lot of the minions insanity which we put minions the crew in here because I think in my, our superlative there was, you know, essentially the most likely to think it's the best example of chef's kiss most likely end up on an HBs case study on chef's kiss viral marketing, because if anyone saw that, I mean, that was the best example I would say all year hands down of the most insane viral marketing campaign that I think I might have ever seen in my life. Like maybe I'm overstating your but it was bananas. So it reminds me a lot of what you just said around the Shrek thing, but you know, to the power of 100

Eli

Sorry, I was I was thinking of Shrek. And when I was thinking minions there was a lot going on a lot happening.

Sara

You had to process it. That's ok

Eli

No I did. I did in the moment then. And now as well. It was just a flood of thoughts and feelings coming back.

Clara

I guess I also and I hope this doesn't completely derail us. I was also really delighted to see Coca Cola within the report because I am a huge Diet Coke fan, drinker. I would like as a Gen Z person if Diet Coke woke up tomorrow and said like we'd like to rule Tik Tok for Gen Z, I would completely sign up I would join the Geneva I would do the whole nine yards and I think it's crazy because at least in my feed, it's something that's meme-ifed, like constantly like Diet Coke girls, this Diet Coke and a starter pack about that Diet Coke like when they Kate Moss Diet Coke thing happened. A bunch of people sent it to me but I never kind of saw it get like the type of industry pickup that I feel like those things often do get and so I guess I was just kind of curious to pick your brain because I think Coca Cola and you speak about this too. Like it's kind of in this interesting space and that I think a lot of beverage brands are starting to rethink how they speak to Gen Z. And you know we were talking with Andrea Hernandez from Snack Shop for instance and like even going to the point of like relaunching their own product and the packaging and so I just kind of curious like what you're kind of expecting coming up for Coca Cola, but words of wisdom you can give to a Diet Coke aspiring Stan. Anything to hope for

Sara

I love that. But yeah, we call that Coca Cola most likely to drive the next big beverage moment so I'm interested to know if you guys all agree with me. We said that beverages have replaced fashion as the new social platform flex kind of like exactly what you just said like you're flexing with your beverage there's a ton of new ish new buzzy brands and they're all in the beverage space. You know, it's whether it's the crater driven ones like Prime or I think of Juvie, you know, Emma Chamberlain's coffee, we see this again and again and again. And I feel like they're coming out every day. And yeah, I was recently in New York and the Ralph's coffee from Ralph Lauren, like the brand's beautiful, you know, coffee experience. There's just so much wide open space there. And I think Coca Cola were like, Let's you got to own this. There's this huge potential for them to be owning this and so I totally agree with you about the diet coke thing and I, I think Coca Cola in general. Now I look at some of the Coca Cola brands like Fruitopia, like how primed is that for a comeback, right

Trey

Ripe for a comeback, ripe for a comeback!

Sara

Right!

Eli

Ok wait, I'm aging myself. I have no idea what that is.

Sara

Well, that's amazing. because you it's a whole new generation that doesn't know what Fruitopia is. It's it's essentially like an early 90s fruit drink that everybody drank.

Eli

And for those listening, she put air quotes on fruits

Sara

Don't quote me on that it might have real fruit in it. I just don't I don't remember it having real fruit in it but the ads were completely trippy and like early mushroom kind of experience. I just there's tons there that they could play with, especially with Gen Z's love of nostalgia and all things nostalgic. So you know, we said look, we'd love to see something like that from Coke, their distribution, their brand and logistics chops, they could power the next wave of creator driven beverage drops, but they could also relaunch, you know, Fruitopia or their brands that have that potential to appeal to Gen Z. Another one is Minute Maid. I know that's like not never disappeared, but I feel like it's ripe for a relaunch and they could totally crush it with that.

Trey

Yeah, if they relaunched Fruitopia as like a nootropics probiotic drink.

Ok 100%!

Free idea here. But yeah, I agree. I don't know if you went you went to Ralph's coffee in New York saw that they also right by right by the place where you pick up your coffee have the hats for sale but say Ralph's coffee on it. So there's literally this integrated moment of pick up the product and pick up the product, you know, like rocket into ways kind of thing. So I completely agree with you that like beverages are the new, like fashion girl it bag of the moment. And it's like, what are you holding? Oh, is that a can of liquid death because it doesn't matter if it's like water in your can. It matters if the can look really cool. You know,

Sara

Yeah we put Erewhon in here for that exact reason. Because the Erewhon smoothie has become the go to the other day I was on Tik Tok insaat influencer had had gone was it Alex Earl? She went to LA just to drink the Erewhon smoothie. And I mean, that is a that's such a moment.

Trey

That could be many people, but I'm sure it was her as well. That that I'm sure you read the article about the Erewhon smoothie, like how it became a whole thing. And obviously Chipotle favorite Tinx was like the first one to kind of get on the menu in a secret way before it was like an official thing. And then Haley Bieber came calling and everything like that. And it's it's so interesting for a celebrity or an influencer to own like, a branded menu item. Which yeah, I think just like from both perspective, like the brand really feels like they're giving something over to the influencer or the celebrity, but the celebrity is really giving something back to the brand, like driving immense sales for this, you know, exclusive or limited time offering launch that I think is so powerful. Yeah,

Sara

Absolutely. And we put Erewhon in there for that reason. And we called them most likely to help us achieve self actualization and, you know, really, like they are such an example of a brand doing this really, really well. And it's exactly what you said it's sort of like that push pull between the influencer not just around the smoothie, but around their membership program, their merch etc. But maybe we use that as an opportunity to talk about the predictions because I definitely you know, felt reading your wellness. What did you call it? The Wellness prediction that I was like, Oh my gosh, this is fantastic

Clara

The get-well boom.

Sara

Exactly, what what I was sort of what we were trying to get at with Erewhon really fit squarely into that.

Clara

Yeah, the get-well boom was interesting, because I think like, and take a little small trip back in time. I think there were a lot of things with wellness we had kind of wanted to touch on like, I think one of our whip words was Mod-Bod at one point and kind of like all of the new like tech tools that people are using to like, optimize every tiny little aspect of their life from like sleep to nutrition to hydration. But I think like what was interesting or like what became interesting with getwell boom, and like in the context of like, culture at large was kind of like this generational transition and like what wellness means from like, millennial goop era like Gwyneth Paltrow and I won't even get into some of the products og Gwyneth but we all know the type of Gwyneth thing we're talking about here. And then into the kind of like this Gen Z meme-ified seed oil type of stuff like the seed, the Sea Moss Girlies. And then like, but also kind of the weirdness that's happening where food becomes medicine becomes telemedicine becomes like, just kind of this blurred line that now exists between actual health care and self care was I think, something that we had kind of wanted to explore. But I think is something that's interesting with like Erewhon and the sort of like, influencer health market at large as far as like, what these people are doing to look the way that they do and like what they're saying they're doing, which is like drinking smoothies at Erewhon. So I guess that's kind of like another part of what I was interested in. And I'm curious, like, your take on that sort of weird space and culture right now.

Sara

Yeah, I think you're that get well, that that really speaks to a shift in the culture. Like I absolutely agree that there is a shift from kind of generationally in regards to wellness and how Gen Z perceives it. I've also noticed that trend really play out on YouTube, actually, with a lot of the kind of routine content, it's very much it's wellness, it's about a routine, but it's much more basic routines. If you've noticed the shift, it's like the routines aren't necessarily just about makeup and getting ready and looking beautiful, but it's actually like just come with me on my day. You see a little bit of that for sure on Tik Tok, but the long versions on YouTube and I've just gone down rabbit holes watching some of them and I think that that's a whole genre and I think it speaks to exactly what you're saying, which is that shift towards almost more of like a lived in wellness of like, I'm actually just going to be myself and treat myself well and have a kind of a much more holistic approach versus like, buying this, you know, in certain goop product here and hoping for the best.

Clara

Yeah. And I think to to bring it back to like, what you're chatting about the, at the beginning with authenticity, like seeing the green washing to wellness washing thing as brands sort of start to speak authentically to what Gen Z wants out of wellness and, you know, trying to make sure that that message like holds water.

Sara

Yeah, one other thing that you also identified, and I'm just gonna call it out, it's in the pre calibrating Predictionary area that that part of that page, you talked a little bit about, you know, the sort of things that we need to deal with the insanity we're in right now. And there was a line about creativity, and sort of like a human centered approach that showed up a bit in the in the whole predictionary, I think, and I'm going to call it I think that creativity is the new frontier of self care. Like, I think we're gonna see people building their creative muscle learning to build it investing and building it thinking about what does it mean to be a creative person, especially as we see the rise of like AI technologies, I just think it's the next thing we're gonna see. I mean, you're gonna see a huge, huge, huge resurgence and things like the artists way. And if you know, you know, that book, classic from the, I think, the 60s or 70s, where people are feeding themselves creatively. And so I saw that, and I sort of saw that in your prediction, I show up a few times, but I just wanted to call it out, because I definitely have been thinking a lot about that.

Clara

Yeah, well, yeah, you take you take it away Eli. No go for

Eli

Oh, thank you. No, I mean, I think what we try to do or have tried to do, at least with the past two years, with the kind of an upfront word to set it up is really try and like, make at least the first word of verb, something that's actionable that people can, it's kind of like a galvanizing force. Because the rest of them are the rest of kind of the words that we chat through in a predictionary are, are more nouns, they're things, they're areas that we're exploring, but what we tried to do in the upfront here is like, provide people with some type of creative toolkit to try and address everything else that we discussed further on, which is like the dominance of franchises and reboots in Hollywood and in streaming, the kind of recent prevalence of AI of generative AI whether in how that's spreading to journalism and artists, stuff like that. So yeah, I mean, I think I think that's right in trend-flation, right, like, just thinking creativity, creatively, excuse me. And critically, I think you're right is like, it sounds so obvious. And it sounds so broad, but I do think that it is a core part of our arsenal to be able to kind of like, navigate kind of this controlled chaos that we're living through right now.

Sara

Yeah, it's actually like, it does sound broad the idea of having to like tap creativity, but actually, like, it's a skill. It's a skill that I think a lot of people are going to be interested in building up. And I'm seeing this in nascent ways, but it's like, I think it's just going to explode.

Trey

Do you have any kind of sweeping trend forecasting things? Like what are you seeing happening this year? I know you, you know, dives really deep with these brands and kind of the superlatives and what's coming next for them? Are there any overarching trends that have bubbled out of this exercise that maybe would be on like, the back page of the brand, your book?

Sara

Yeah, I love how we're like, we are in a trend-session. There's too much trend forecasting. And it's like, but Sara, what are your trends? So, you know, I love a prediction, you know, a lot of times I'm happy to, but it's I just want to call that out.

Eli

No, I mean, it's funny, it's funny that we kind of call out, call that out in our own trend reports

Sara

I love it! we are obssesed, we are obviously here, because we all love to

Eli

We can't help ourselves. I mean, if you read like Matt Klein's meta trends, it's like we this is our red thread. It's like kinda do this, but yeah, anyway, sorry. Go on, please.

Sara

Totally. Yeah, I would say um, there's sort of content themes. And then there's cultural themes or threads. So content themes I see thing you know, creator driven, everything I see out of the box collaborations, really thoughtful, interesting, unusual collaborations, I see the drop model going crazy, even more, which it's already everywhere. I think we're gonna continue to see it. I see reverse engineering virality. I think I mentioned that where you have products that are actually like completely optimized for social and optimized to go viral. I see something I call nostalgia as a service, which is essentially like different products and services that are delivering a hit of nostalgia. So that's like from a content point of view. I think that's going to even explode from a nostalgia point of view. Like we might even have, you know, re-releases of old video games that we haven't seen in years that have like weird niche followings and products created around them. I think that's up for an explosion. And then from a cultural side, I think there's so much like, you know, every anybody named whatever quiet quitting. And I saw that in your report? I think that's BS. I actually agree with Gary Vee, who said something along the lines of, you know, younger demographics have options in terms of making money, now they can make money on the internet. And so when you're talking about hiring younger employees, it's it's not. So it's that they can go make money on the internet that you would pay them and they're probably going to go do that if they can. So if your job isn't giving them an incredible opportunity to build their personal brand to really grow to really be mentored, then sorry. And I think a lot of employers are not getting that yet. They're sort of like no one wants to work anymore. And it's like, no, no, people want to work. They just don't want to kill themselves for not great pay and no visibility or mentorship. So I think there's higher expectations for younger workers and a sense of I can actually go figure this out on my own, and that is the sort of crux of the crater economy when we think about it.

Eli

Wow. Well, with that, and hopeful return of Fruitopia, I will give you the floor to let our listeners know where they can find you where they can find the brand yearbook. Of course, we'll drop it in our write up below. But yeah,

Sara

Yeah, so I, yeah, check me out @SW projects.co. That's SW projects with an S .co. That's my site. You can also find me on LinkedIn where I do a lot of writing a lot of posting and sharing my stuff. I'm just Sara E. Wilson. No H on my name. So that's Sara E. Wilson. And then yeah, the Brand Yearbook is the brandyearbook.com. You can go there just plug in your email and you will get it right away. Thank you so much for having me. I honestly would love anyone who reads the yearbook. Anyone who gets in touch and sees my writing. Like challenge me talk to me. I want to hear from you. I want to hear all your opinions. You know, anything that comes to mind. I love talking to people about this as you might be able to tell.

Eli

Totally, this was great. Thank you so much for joining.

Sara

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for having me, all of you.

Eli

Thanks for listening in. Be sure to check out more on d1a.com/perspectives. And sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter to get the latest trends and insights directly to your mailbox.