
Creative Consultant Gia Kuan on Building Cultural Relevance Outside of the Trend Cycle
Eli
Today, on the pod we're joined by Gia Kuan. She is the founder, I guess I could say CEO, CEO of Gia Kuan Consulting, a global consultancy with the focus on creating cultural connections with lasting impacts. Don't worry on the podcast, we dive into what that actually means. But she has some phenomenal clients, including Telfar, and Luar, which just absolutely stole the show, I suppose you could say at New York Fashion Week, I really enjoyed the conversation that we had, particularly learning that P!nk is huge pink, the artist is huge, and Australia. But more importantly, we learned a lot I think about, you know, taking a more slower, intentional approach to putting your brand out in the world, which I think a lot of people can learn from.
Trey
But also being disruptive when it's time to be disruptive.
Eli
I know in which one can you choose.
Clara
Well finding a balance much like the Libra's Gia and I both are well. Anyway, that's enough of us.
Eli
All right, let's bring her on. Thumbs up from the producer. Gia Kuan. Welcome to the pod.
Gia Kuan
Thank you for having me.
Eli
Yeah. Well, just to dive right in. I was reading the profile that you had in Vanity Fair. And I spotted buried in the article that your average daily screen time was nine hours and 50 minutes. And I know you're coming off a busy busy week with New York Fashion Week at all. But I'm just curious. Where do you clock in? This past week.
Gia Kuan
Is my screen time still the same? I haven't checked, but I probably would estimate it's more because when I did that piece. It was pre Fashion Week. So I think that would be my like, average. And then it spikes during fashion week. So
Trey
Where do you spend like time looking at? Like is it mostly email app? Or is it...
Gia Kuan
It's, I think most of the time it's email app, I wake up in the morning, this is probably not the healthy like no one should be doing this. But Morning. Wake up in the morning. I should not be looking at my emails. But I do and I kind of just like start to clear it out. And then I like scroll on different apps once in a while.
Trey
For fun or for work, or both?
Gia Kuan
Both and then I wind down before you go to sleep by doing puzzle like puzzles and crosswords also.
Trey
Wow, that's crazy.
Eli
Clara loves connections.
Clara
Oh yeah are you in New York Times puzzle or?
Gia Kuan
Yes, but I can only to the mini puzzle the main one is too crazy for me. Yeah, I cheat for those?
Clara
Oh yeah, you have to or like at least do like the check puzzle thing and just keep guessing but I've been really hooked on spelling bre. Not that this is what the people came to hear.
Gia Kuan
But I love Spelling Bee I love Wordle.
Clara
Oh, yes. What's your word of streak? Speaking of screen time.
Gia Kuan
I've done like a couple of first time guesses just
Eli
Whoa. Wow.
Clara
Woah the roulette of Wordle.
Trey
Yeah, that's so fun. So like to backup quickly.
Gia Kuan
Sorry, got distracted.
Eli
It's good. mental acuity. But sorry. Good ahead Trey.
Trey
Yeah, no well, that's it's interesting, because I you know, as a PR maven, can we call you? You hate that term. No, but no, tell us tell us who you are. Tell us what you do. And you know how you got so much screen time.
Gia Kuan
I, well, I guess am a publicist by day or I own a communication agency. I started it five years ago. And I've been in New York for the past 13 years. So I've always been in PR communications kind of like brand advisory but started out five years ago, predominantly working with independent fashion brands to start. And then over the years, I guess it's expanded to an assortment of fashion, art, lifestyle. And we work on everything ranging from the communications to community growth to a lot of events, which is also something that we're known for.
Trey
Oh, awesome. So like, Can you name some of your clients for us that we might be?
Gia Kuan
Sure so I work with from fashion. I work with Telfar who has been working with me since the beginning and actually was one of the people who told me to start out on my own actually. And then Laur I work with Laur. I work with Jordan brand, Priscavera, Kim Sri the list kind of goes on, Stussy.
Trey
That's so cool. So I'm curious like when you got started, obviously, you came from a traditional PR background I'm assuming, did you study PR in school?
Gia Kuan
I studied. Yes, I did study I actually was a Law dropout. I studied law for a couple of years, I didn't like it, then I...
Eli
What kind? Sorry.
Gia Kuan
Just general.
Eli
You know, the giant book.
Gia Kuan
Giant book I was I was really bad at it. And then I dropped out, I pursued Media and Communications. But at the time, honestly, it was so theoretical, I don't think anything I do now really correlated with what I studied them, which is predominantly advertising, and radio journalism, which I don't really do anymore. But I did come from a PR background, like, when I first moved to New York, 13 years ago, I got my foot in the door working for a company got assigned in Dover Street Market as a PR assistant at the time. So and then kind of worked my way I was there for six years. Then I took a break from fashion, and then went to an agency and Aiding Johnson, and worked there for three years as our head of arts and culture. Because they also study my minored in art history. And then, and then I just moved on to my own thing afterwards.
Trey
And it must be kind of freeing be able to, like choose your own clients versus having to, you know, often tell us some stories of brands that were like not super jazzed about like, how does that differ?
Gia Kuan
It really differs a lot, because I feel like that was one of the main drivers. I think when I started my own thing was, I met really inspiring brands like Telfar, like Luar at the time, like Kim Sri, all of these brands I still work with today. And there was just kind of like a space of underrepresented stories. And I was like, Oh, no one's telling these stories. I just really want to help connect these dots, introduce him to the right people. It's like a little bit of like a matchmaking exercise, which I loved. But yeah, it's nice to be able to have that freedom to choose. And I think it also makes so much of the difference in your work to when you're passionate about it. I think. Also on the receiving end, the media knows that that person's your vibe. That's why you're vouching for them. And that's why they should write about it.
Eli
So like, what's on the what's on the checklist, when like a potential client comes like, what what would you say is like a Gia Kuan consulting client base? Like, what what differentiates them? I'm sure you've had to say no, obviously, and like, why why not?
Gia Kuan
A lot of no's.
Eli
It's a good place to be.
Gia Kuan
Yeah, I mean, it's, honestly, it's a bit of a vibe check. Because our team is small, I started with just myself, even even until like maybe two, three years ago, we were still only up to five people, we're now nine, it's still considered a small team. So I think the brands that we work with getting, I think has a line with a couple of things, I think, doesn't necessarily have to be independent, you know, although that kind of was our roots. And that's really what we believe in. But then at the same time, I think it's a potential for storytelling, I think we're not so much looking at the product on its own, as opposed to kind of the process and the messaging behind it, and then what that potential looks like. And I also think, like, you know, getting like a client by object just to make sure that you also have a good potential to have a good long relationship that Yeah, last is really important, too.
Clara
Yeah, I'm curious too, because I think telephony, you were saying you worked with them basically, from the beginning. But I feel like even like, in the past few years, you know, like the landscape of PR, the landscape of like, social media has changed so much. And I was just curious if you could speak a little bit to like, the evolution of that relationship. And like, either, you know, just sort of how it's evolved, because of those sort of external factors or just like, for a brand that has sort of gone from being sort of, you know, Indian, small to like, it's on all of our clients mood boards is like a great example of a brand that, you know, breaks through headlines and connects with culture. So yeah, I'm just kind of curious to hear more about it.
Gia Kuan
I think Telfar is an interesting example. Because, to be honest, they they're so brilliant, I think the team on their own, they're brilliant storytellers, when I first met them. I mean, all the elements were there, I was just more like, you know, this needs to be recognized in the main industry. And I think I was there. I can't take credit for their messaging, because they've always been great storytellers. But I think I was able to connect the dots. And I think also being able to work with brands and thinking of like, their growth milestones and what they may need might change down the line. And I think that's also what we did as an assessment. You know, I think we've had an amazing array of fashion industry press, but then we also went into broadcast and radio because Telfar as a brand is so big and it is for everyone. And also like it's okay to take a break. Sometimes we think it's okay to slow down. It's like when you think about press cycles and you know, having a long lasting brand what that messaging pattern can look like and not being able to always like one up yourself. It doesn't have to be that way. So I think sometimes, like with would tell for two, we've kind of gone through all of those and still like growing. I think now it's more just about continued community growth. And also ensuring like the new audience also understands, like what Telfar was always about, because now it's so big. So it's only going back to, you know, the new audience that's learning about it. How did they understand what Telfer was about in day one as well.
Trey
I love how you say, like, connect the dots, because I feel like, you know, to your credit, you've chosen to work with amazing clients who already have this incredible story to tell and are so talented at that. But I wonder if you could kind of expand more on what you mean by connect the dots, because I feel like a lot of brands feel they have a strong story, but they're clearly missing, you know, something. And I wonder like, what it is that you and your team kind of provide? Whether it's like, you introduce them to the right people, or you get them in the right outlets, or you help them craft the story in some way. Like, can you expand a bit more on what that mean?
Gia Kuan
Yeah, it's really all of the above. Because when your storytelling and I think press is only one small portion of the output now, you know, there's social media, it's such a big part of your conversation, like brands also own their own way of storytelling through newsletter, their own internal channels, social media, word of mouth, etc. So presses almost on equal parts with like, you know, the other side of it, which is their direct community and audience. And so when we're thinking about value added, it's like, yes, what are the right outlets, but not even just the right outlets for the right writers? Because I think you can't just see publications as one entity, there's real people inside. And there's real bias. Exactly. And so, no, there's writers that I just know, you know, I think that's why also relationships are so key, because you know, a lot of these nuances that you might not know, by reading a masthead, I might know like, Oh, my God, Trey, Trey, like those on the side, like, I know, he would really like this brand, because XYZ. So I think being able to connect those dots and know those nuances is key. And then that really applies for the same when you're introducing the brand to other people, whether it's talents that they can grow with, which is what we did at the beginning for a lot of our brands is when these independent brands don't really have the resources, how do you identify who those people are, that can maybe grow with you down the line and are kind of your audience for life, because they've been with you along the way. And it's kind of like, the same philosophy that we've been able to help grow from, like a team perspective to an audience protest spective, as well.
Clara
I was just gonna say yeah, to what you were saying a little bit earlier, too, about Telfar and like, also being okay, with taking a break. I feel like that's something that we've been starting to talk about here a little bit to have, like, you know, the 24 hour cycle that social media kind of helps you create, and like the pressure to stay on top of every trend and to like, respond to every comment and do all of those things, like kind of in the same spirit of like knowing when to say no, like, how do you sort of gauge when to step in and step out of like, the online conversation and kind of, not even in a sense of like making the brand overexposed, necessarily, but just sort of making sure that there's intentionality and you know, landing with impact versus, you know, trying to be everywhere all the time, or trying to be the loudest voice in the room at all times.
Gia Kuan
I think that's something that we try to really bridge with clients and brands at the beginning is, so much of it is like managing expectations of clients, and also educating each other along the process and being like, hey, like, this is, I know, these are your goals, this is what we should do to kind of like, line up and get there. But maybe we should think about it in ways like if you want to create a lot of noise now When is it okay to take a bit of a break? Because the the reality is, is things are just not going to keep on going up, it's there's always going to be a point when there's going to be stagnant or like it goes down a little bit. And I think it's also just about managing that in and that's okay. And it helps you kind of recap, regroup and do your next thing, etc. I don't know if that helps?
Clara
No, it does. It does. Because I think I mean, we've been thinking about it, or I guess, talking about it, looking at the Predictionary right now that's staring at me from the table, but we talked about it a little bit in there too, just around like, maybe in terms of certain platforms or participating in trends or like trying to be, you know, the top Gen Z brand, which is like an oft repeated the goal of this is to be x. And I don't know, it's just interesting to hear how you manage that expectation from like, I don't know, a press standpoint, but then also from you know, just like, what is the goal for this brand specifically?
Gia Kuan
I think sometimes it's really easy to fall into like the trend traps and I think as we're doing like each brand exercise, it's good to kind of peel away from and just focus on what the brand goals are. And then think about applying that. Because there's no really cookie cutter way of doing it, every brand is so different. And at the end of the day, it's really about acknowledging and kind of owning that voice from the beginning and not be swayed by it's so easy to be swayed by industry and kind of other types of standards. But it's kind of like, coaching them along the way and be like, this is okay, like, how do we own this voice? And then how do we not kind of fall into that press cycle or whatever, you know, that's happening? And maybe you can tell the story on your own? Maybe you can't, but it doesn't have to be like another case study. We try not to do like, it's good to be aware of other case studies, but I don't like to apply that when we're applying.
Trey
Yeah, so copy and paste.
Eli
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. You say like the cookie cutter branding, because I feel like what happens when you do fall into like, the trend cycle trap is that you inevitably like, more form yourself within those cookie cutter confines of like the other mood board or the other other reference boards, or what other brands are doing and kind of like, stifling I suppose your creative output. But yeah, I'm so in, like, deviating, I suppose from the trend cycle, which I feel like is. Do you feel that that's more of like a recent occurrence within the past? Four years, I suppose. Like, what? Well, I mean, I'm curious about like, what a lasting impact means when the trend cycle in the media cycle does feel like it moves much. I mean, I've only been doing this for four years. And even within that time span, it feels like, you know, one day something's in the next hour, etc, that's very reductive way of looking at it. But like, how do you view lasting impacts? Now? I guess? That wasn't in the sheet that went over.
Gia Kuan
I think I mean, I was talking to someone about this the other day, but the idea of like, you know, social media is such a huge part of the conversation. And it's hard to there is kind of like this flattening because of the way that algorithms are on social media, and how that kind of can affect what you're looking at and what like determines what the trends are. And, yeah, I don't know if there's like a, I don't know if I have like an answer for that.
Eli
It sounds like you you work with brands are influenced brands very directly, who are cultural makers, vs takers, those who kind of formed the cookie cutter versus the ones into it. And it seems like a lot of them operate outside of the confines of those trends. So yeah, I guess that is what it takes to create a lasting impression. Like there's a reason why they're on the mood board. And they've been on the mood board for the past year.
Gia Kuan
Yeah, exactly. And I think that when we first think about the brands that we want to work with, and when we're having these conversations, especially when there's so many brands that kind of we have these initial conversations with and what sets their products when we think about the fact that they have a new unique point of view. Because the market is just so saturated, I think you have like an instinct, okay, they're, they're doing, they're in their own lane. And they may need some navigating, but I liked that their vision is already there that or they're already not thinking like that. Which is like always a good start. But of course, if it is also prone for younger brands to be swayed by other types of trends. And I think it's also harder part of us to be like, it's okay, do your own thing.
Eli
It's good you need that.
Trey
Because oftentimes, you approach like an agency like yours with the idea that like, I want you to execute on my idea versus like telling me that maybe it sucks, maybe I need a new idea. Or maybe my goal is so out of left field, like, I'm sure you'll get absurd. And maybe you can even have examples to hand but like absurd people who come who are like, Oh, I my goal is to be the Gen X brand, or the Gen Z brand. Or like my goal is to get the headline in New York Times or something. And you're like, before we get there. Let's backpedal.
Gia Kuan
Let's backpedal. Let's see, like, what, what it takes for you to get there may might not be a tomorrow thing. I'm not. I'm not saying it won't happen. But it might not be immediate, and where are the steps that we can do to make you closer to that goal?
Clara
I'm curious too like, how and whether this comes up, but like people being like, oh, I want to be like underground or I want to be edgy or exclusive and like where those conversations are apt to just because I feel like Telfar and so many of the brands that exist now are sort of existing in this much more exclusive like telephones for everyone type of messaging and like, I don't know, but I feel like there still is like somewhat of an undercurrent, sometimes of like trying to strike the right balance between becoming like, you know, like, we want this party to be fun and interesting and unexpected. But then how do you balance that too with making sure it's inclusive and isn't, you know, steering too too far into a realm of like, I don't know, kind of like hoity toity for lack of a better word this Yeah, I think I can think of...
Gia Kuan
I get it. I think that so much actually, it's not so much something I think about all the time. But I feel like there's something inherently in everything that we do. And I think that maybe it's because I'm a Libra, and I'm all about that balance. You know. But I think it on the back of our head, it is that having a fine balance is very important in from like storytelling to audience, and keeping the high low, and making sure that you're growing, but still have that bit of edge. I think that honestly does apply to everything that we do.
Trey
Yeah. Because I'm curious how you navigate, for example, like a Heaven by Marc Jacobs party. Yeah, exactly. It's like, we're already big, but we want to be like, edgy and cool. We want the right people to be there. But we don't want to, like, turn people away, per se. But we also you know what I mean? Like, how, and you're like...
Gia Kuan
There's a lot of considerations. But I think, a brand like that they do you have a bit of an edge. I think, yes. To your point, they also have a huge audience. And I think when we first you know, that that big party that we did, we did have to kind of vet, you know, it was a large capacity space, but we did have to vet like a list. And that list took a while to craft because we did have to strike that balance. But then there was also the waiting list component. And so we had to, you know, to point we also did want to open up to the general community and what portion of that is like okay to go.
Trey
That's a tough job. I heard a lot of great stories about, yeah, well, people who had like an amazing time, but those who were like, oh my god, the line.
Gia Kuan
The line was crazy, but that the line was also because of a TikTok leak. So that's just our favorite. That was the year of the TikTok flyer leaks.
Trey
Those kids in there I mean, I you know, it takes me back to like the beginning of the cut blogging era when like Tavi and Brian Boyd were sitting front row at Fashion Week and like, I think they went to the Dolce and Gabbana show and they were flown out or something and they literally put laptops on their seats. Like they said the next Anna Wintour, whatever I just like saw, I think the Brian Boyd did like a story in the cut where he was, like, really. They literally just like the blogging era, and they literally planted prop laptops on the seats to like, showcase that bloggers were the new like thing or something. And so Brian Boyd, as you know, one of these folks got there and was like, okay, like I'm playing a part here, you know, but yeah, I think you know, that has happened in the past year or two maybe three I guess with the TikTokers trying to infiltrate what is you know, and this is my staunch opinion but like Fashion Week is a trade show. You know, if you were a dentist and you went to a dentist convention and there was a TikToker there you'd be kind of pissed like... I just don't I don't know i don't see like I of course enjoy fashion as a consumer and as a once you know, journalist who was invited to these things I also enjoy seeing it in person but the people who like try and get there and don't need to be there. I'm like this is an industry facing trade show that you are infiltrating for your likes and views. Go back to your bedroom and do your dances. No, no, I just I'm here I don't know if there was no question there. But I'm just what are your thoughts?
Gia Kuan
I mean, I mean, I feel the same I think there's a place in time I think there's there are like you know, other types of parties and things are maybe not so industry facing where I'm totally okay because we work with these independent brands and we love there is this aspect of oh, I love a crowd I love having the kids there because I think they're to be honest, what makes it really fun in the end without some crashers in like you're not gonna have a you know, like I'm like okay with few crashes if you're lucky to get you know, right crash or bike crashes It's okay. But that's also what makes it fun and it you know, that was what gives it you New York energy. But yeah, to your point living Fashion Week, certain events, it is for trading it is for industry, and it's a tough thing to balance when you have the finishing critics there and then you have the kids with the phones, you know.
Eli
Speaking of TikTok leaks, I feel like one of the things that we've discussed both on this podcast and in the Predictionary and I guess in you know, wider conversations at the agency is like the kind of status and cultural anxiety that I feel like has been percolating, particularly this or like within the past year or so. And what I mean by that is like, you have TikTok and social media, which by and large has been like this democratizing force It has allowed everyone, like instant access to all of these resources and references. And by and large, that is a good thing like on an individual level, but as a whole, that means like, everyone feels that they have like cultural capital and knows what's cool and what's new and what's next. And this I'm proud to say I am taking it far out of context. But towards the end of the Vanity Fair piece, you said like things don't have to be so gatekept all the time, are you finding as someone who worked in nightlife worked a door, works in PR that, like gatekeeping is can actually be a good and valuable and that there's kind of a desire to have more of a cultural hierarchy in place where people who kind of have put the time and effort to know what's good and who should be in the room are, like influencing that versus just kind of like a algorithmically led free for all.
Gia Kuan
You know, when I first entered the industry, I had a slightly different mean, it changed over time, you know, I think I, I still feel like it shouldn't be gatekept, you know, it's just certain degree, I still feel like the times have changed. And I think the fashion industry also Fashion Week, at times serves a different purpose than it used to because it was very much led by wholesale seasons and buying, whereas like people showing on the calendar now with DTC it kind of serves a different purpose, for example, but I remember, even I think it was like pre 2019. You know, throwing these you know, big like White Castle parties with Telfar or like with other...
Trey
Those YouTube videos are crazy. I highly encourage anyone to YouTube, the White Castle, Burger King party, there is insane footage. But keep going.
Gia Kuan
Yeah so at the time, I was like, Yeah, I wasn't like, let's just let the kids I really was just like, let's just like disrupt us a little bit and like, mess it up. Without thinking about so much of the consequences. And, you know, to be honest, a lot of in the early days, I think doing that wasn't necessary to push the envelope. But at the same time, I did get a lot of angry press emails, I don't think a lot of editors were pleased with me, because I was like, I don't care. I was like, I'll just let the kids come to the shows. And, you know, why does it have to be present, like, what does it only have to be for pressing buyers and seating and, like, I feel like we should like mess it up a little bit. And we did that, you know, definitely like, you know, ruffled some feathers. But at the same time, I also feel like without doing that, it did definitely change the industry thing. The way that people think about things a little bit.
Trey
Well, yeah, I think Telfair is like a shining example, where it's like, you have this client and Luar as well, like, you have this client who matches that kind of disruptive energy. So you have to bring it on your end as well, or else like the message doesn't come through in the most authentic way. Whereas like, Now, that might have been normalized, in large part due to you and your efforts. But like, every, you know, every brand wants to have that like disruptive White Castle moment or whatever. So. So yeah, I do think, you know, giving you your accolades. But that's awesome.
Gia Kuan
Yeah no it's striking a balance. But to be even with the last show we did last week, it's, I'm looking at the room. And I'm like, it's not possible without his community there. They're the ones who are always cheering him on. They've been with him since the beginning. Why would we ever, all of a sudden gate keep them out? Because they've been there they've been? They've been loyal to brands, it was day one. If anything, some of the industry people came late. So you know...
Trey
Well can I can I confirm or actually been able to confirm this theory, but like, so for luar I heard that. At the beginning, when people weren't exactly talking a lot about it. There was like, this strategy put in place where he was giving away bags, like loaning bags out to people to like, take photos with or just kind of hanging out with. And all of a sudden, these bags start like appearing in everyone's feeds. And then everybody wants this, like, I don't know the name of the bag, but like that one particular backpack? Yes, yes. And like, to me, that seems like such a genius strategy. Because first of all, you're not giving away product for free. But you are identifying one a community that you can, like, you know, loan or your product to that maybe you don't know personally might start personally but then grow and grow. So you've like a wider and wider circle. It's like flooding your feed. So everyone's like, suddenly, who's this brand? Who's Luar I need a bag and you know, just for context, and you can expand more but like, Luar is this incredible independent New York designer Raul Lopez, who I believe was like part of Telfar at one point? No?
Gia Kuan
He was part of Hood by Air.
Trey
Oh Hood by Air excuse me.
Gia Kuan
But he's, they're really good friends. Their family can kind of work together.
Trey
Ok yeah. And so like, all of a sudden, you know, especially in my feet, this like past year, year and a half I started seeing these bags literally everywhere. And it was you know, I'm gonna go by to like this is also maybe not true, but like the Mona Lisa theory where I believe DaVinci like, literally carried around the Mona Lisa everywhere he went, it wasn't even like his best painting, but he just like did it so often that everybody was like, oh, this must be a thing. You're always hanging around with this, like painting of yours.
Clara
You always hang out with this painting. What's this?
Trey
But it's like this kind of thing where we know. Same with Fyre festival and like the orange square, like everyone's posting the orange square over and over and you're like, why is what's going on here? So in that same way he like drummed up all this buzz around this bag, specifically that it became like, very well known and, I don't know, partially launched his brand into like, the ether that it occupies now.
Gia Kuan
I can't confirm or deny that strategy. Also, I didn't I can't take credit for it. But that's all the brilliance of Raul but I do agree. I feel like to certain points, especially like, with the effectiveness of social media, there is the idea of repetition. I think this is like not a new strategy. I think it's always been used, but the idea of like visual repetition somehow does work. Effectively. Yeah. But also having the right people do it. That doesn't seem like humble eluded, it seems like natural, it seems like authentic to the brand. I think that's important.
Trey
Totally, yeah. Because you want a community who like at the end of the day will, you know, support you and buy your product, like maybe they didn't get the bag for free or got to keep it but like, they probably hung out with it enough that it was like, Oh, my lip gloss fits perfectly in this pocket or whatever. So anyway, I do want to transition to press and media. Well, yeah, so you know, we talk a lot, but I talked about this podcast, how I came from, like a magazine background. And, you know, I, I'm, because I was kind of saying earlier, you know, off pod, I'm kind of happy that I sort of escaped this current mess of like all of these outlets closing constantly, how how important is to your clients, specifically, how important is like press or a good headline in 2024.
Gia Kuan
To be honest, most clients still really value it, even though it's, it's kind of this thing, it's like, press this give you that credential, from industry recognition standpoint, but we also understand that press is not the only thing anymore. So again, it really depends on the brand. I do think that brands still place value. There is still the idea like wow, even land like a New York Times article and ft that's like, major, you know, it's like, that gives you that credibility. Especially if you're going from being independent to mass, you know, those certain headlines help. Although, I sometimes always, always encourage people like, guys, you have to read till the end of the article, because like people only read headlines these days.
Trey
Yeah, I wonder like, how big a part of it of your strategy is it to like, go for the right press or get the right kind of story and like, when do you employ that?
Gia Kuan
It is part of the strategy again, depending on the brand we and where how far along they are and their storytelling, you know, sort of timeline, we may go in at the beginning, just be like, hey, what do you have like because we don't work traditionally in the way where brands are just like here's the release, go and blast it out. Because so much of it is being able to work shop and advice earlier on. So you can ensure that whatever does go down, and go out down the line goes out effectively. Because there's nothing worse, you know, the woes of like a publicist, it's like being able to like pitching hundreds of people and no one responding to you and you're like it is not sticking this is the horrible, most horrible day, like what is happening to my emails. Circling back, following up and then the clients are asking for an update and you're like oh, still waiting to hear. So I think as much as we can to mitigate that and being able to workshop that language at the beginning and actually ensuring that there is a story to tell if there isn't Is this the right time being able to go in and assess all of that I think is important.
Trey
Because for me as a journalist it was always a struggle getting press releases that were like x product has launched, do you want to interview so and so and it's like, well, your product like I don't know say it it's like a clothing item. It's like your your clothing item looks cool. But like what if there's no story around it and you're not like doing anything with it? Then my headline is x launched like a new X thing, which nobody alright, that's the whole story and headline so like Yeah. So yeah, I think that it's interesting that you talk about like, you have to have, first of all the right timing to tell the story because like, it could even be the new launch. Maybe it's big news for you or your brand, but nobody is going to click on that. And I think this is something that, like, I try, at least here is like, do you personally care about this? So as I like, bad example, and I'm not throwing anyone under the bus here, but we were talking about this, like, brand campaign thing and some like activation for it. And we were like, oh...
Eli
Is it the phone case?
Trey
No, I won't be saying what I was talking, just talking about it. And I was like, Oh, should we get like, P!nk to do this concert in this area or whatever? And then I was like, Okay, let's be honest here for a sec. You guys. Would you get excited for a P!nk concert? Just just honestly?
Eli
Well, don't look at me, but I'm just saying like, it's the I agree with you. But it's a question about us as like marketers, and I guess our job is in like to know, kind of what's cool broadly, or niche-ly. But is it like for the audience? And I guess I don't really know what your well...
Trey
Yeah, no, I guess if it was for P!nk fans, then yes. It'd be amazing. But like, I think generally people forget to ask themselves like, do I care about what I care? And why would I share? Why would I care?
Gia Kuan
Fun fact is P!nk is really big in Australia.
Eli
I was just thinking well, yes. I was like I was gonna say Dubaimfor some reason.
Gia Kuan
P!nk is huge. They're like huge, so marketing this product to Australia. She is like..
Clara
Fresh insights.
Gia Kuan
Like as big or bigger than Kylie Minogue there.
Eli
Whoa. What about Troy Shavon?
Gia Kuan
I know that I grew up there. And I went back to Australia last August for the woman's Soccer World Cup and P!nk still very much a big thing.
Trey
That's insane. Because like, I always love how and this is completely derailing here, but there's like certain people who have a certain number ones in different countries. And so who was it? They had like this huge hit in the in the UK. And I lived in London for a while. And it was like, oh, yeah, I love like that guy song or whatever. And I was like, oh, yeah, this one and they were like, No, this one. And I was like, I've never heard about my life, but like charted there. Number one, but nobody, like nowhere else. So they were like, Oh, it's a huge hit. And I was like, it is here. In Australia, it was like a Sean Paul adjacent type person. Nice. But I will I will track it down and play in the outro.
Gia Kuan
I might know what I might have grown up with that.
Trey
Oh, probably. Yeah. Because I'm also Commonwealth, which I don't know if we discussed this ever. But yeah, so anyway,,
Clara
Love finding our commonality.
Trey
But yeah, so so back to like the press combo. I'm wondering if your clients have any dream outlets per se? Or I'm sure it's different for every client, but like, are they like knocking down the doors of a specific magazine? Or?
Gia Kuan
Yeah, depends on clients. I mean, I feel like the big like the FT's and New York Times, they're always like, the big gets, you know, but then like, depending on the direction they want to go in it, you know, they want to be positioned as more edgy and cool than like days note 32 C is like on the top of the charts or ID or Interview. So yeah, I think that it really is the end. And we also work in a lot of the arts. So, you know, for for our clients, art net, and artsy are still really big art news. Depends.
Clara
Oh, man, high bar. Yeah. Well, I guess also to the point about storytelling and Trey's Pink analogy. Like, I'm curious too, because I think Telfar is a really good example and Luar. And a lot of the brands that you've worked with of the product being very much embedded with the storytelling and likewise, that like, the Telfar is for everyone thing, I think the bag has become very symbolic of that. And a lot of ways and I think, different campaigns and different events that have involved the back of kind of all laddered into that same storytelling. And I think similarly, without naming names, I think that that balance of finding true and authentic ways to tell stories with product is a challenge, you know, historically for brands. And so I'm curious, like, what if anything, are like how those conversations happen, like when you were saying about, like, early planning conversations with brands, like, is it about the product and like trying to find like, okay, like, what story is this telling? Or is it sort of more like, finding the story and then finding ways to sort of bring the product to that in ways that feel true? Because I think, yeah, it's just like, a sticking point consistently. I find.
Gia Kuan
Yeah, I think for us, it's finding meaning beyond the product at the beginning, but we always go back to Yes, a product is almost it's like the The vessel I feel like when we're working with brands, we always go back to the brand core of like what the messaging is. And then like, if there is indeed a product launch, how does that play into it? Is there a particular significance? Sometimes there honestly isn't. And that's okay. I feel like that's also, if you're trying to create too much meaning out of something that doesn't need it, that also doesn't feel right. And so I think it just has to be really prescriptive, there's something sometimes an item is just an item. And it's a cool release. And it designs speaks for itself. But sometimes brand has worn messaging towards their social impact all of those things, and that is, like, then charged through the product. So, you know, I think there's like multiple layers of it really, depending on case by case. Yeah, definitely.
Clara
Yeah. It's the critical thinking aspect.
Eli
Yeah,
Clara
that's, you know, so often the squeaky wheel, but I totally agree, because I think it's, it is a tough balance of like finding and, you know, reinforcing whatever the core message is, and then sometimes allowing the product just to be a product, but I feel like, you know, that probably takes a lot of trust to between you and the brand to have those types of kind of like very honest conversations about it, too. You know, yeah.
Gia Kuan
And I think also looking back on, like fashion brands, in general, I think are going through different waves of storytelling, there is just a lot of identity politics to at play, you know, in the past five to seven years or so, that's really significantly shift. Because if you think back before, then, brands maybe didn't need to have that to be able to shine into the press world. And so it's kind of like, maybe I'll go back into another swing. But you know, I think there is you always go through these, you know, coming from the press that you probably know, too, there's these, they are these cycles, where press is more gravitated towards certain types of stories more than others. And, you know, certain brands will just shine during those times.
Trey
Yeah, I agree. Like when I was at Dazed that it became a Mad Libs at one point where like, we internally, we made fun of the so I feel like I couldn't say it. But it was like, you know, around that 2014 era, when it like was just becoming very, the beginning of identity politics. And day is kind of like the wave in some cases in there. But it was like, Oh, this radical feminist who's doing X thing here, like our headlines would all be kind of versions of each other. And at some point, you were like, oh, gosh, like this, you know, and at that point, it really was, it was like, Oh, this girl with hairy armpits is like doing this thing. And, you know, it was like a legit cool thing. But you're just like, do I have to put them the headline, like, I'm sure people can just find that out themselves when they click in but it really did. It was like an important piece of it. This was a long time ago. But I'm wondering to kind of close out do you have any dream kind of accomplishment goal things you're looking for in terms of whether it's like client dream client, or like dream thing you want to do with the client?
Eli
Backstage Pink in Australia?
Gia Kuan
Honestly, not know, but I know. Dream things. I think. I always love it when we push like clients out of like something that's a little unexpected. So we talked about press cycle, for example, in and I think, I guess we're predominantly talking about print and online press. But even like, thinking about ranges outside of that, you know, sometimes going into traditional media or like interesting appearances on TV, where it's applicable, or matchmaking, you know, a designer with a character on TV. I feel like those kind of moments are interesting too, because it's a little bit more outside the box. And if it's fitting for the brand, and it's really cool when that does happen, forming unexpected friendships, but then also, media opportunities along the way.
Trey
Like, what kinds of shows?
Gia Kuan
Like The Real Housewives.
Trey
Oh, I love that. That's so fun.
Gia Kuan
Or like, I don't know having a movie cameo or something.
Trey
Absolutely.
Clara
Yeah. Did you read Tom Sandoval? The recent story about him in the New York Times today? It's good. He's on his redemption tour. Yeah, how much longer in episode two and part two of...
Eli
Cool well, thank you so much for joining us today before we officially close out where can our listeners learn more about Gia Kwon Consulting find you on social, PO Box whatever, flash games.
Gia Kuan
New office now you'll see me around golden unicorn probably dim sum restaurant downstairs, I'll be walking around a lot. No Gia Kuan Consulting as the Instagram handle is where we do most of our communication cool. Probably more so than our website, which is just now reads like a image blog.
Eli
Like I enjoy it. It was like a little Tumblr. Cool. Well, thank you so much. Yo, thanks for tuning in. Stay up. I think they went up then by subscribing to our page on Spotify, following us on Instagram @d1a and staying up to date with the latest trends and insights on d1a.com/perspective.