Eli

Another day another FM. Welcome back to Day One FM. Clara, Trey, how we doing today?

Trey

Can I just say I'm feeling very beautiful?

Eli

Wow. Wow. And was it something with your routine or normal routine or just.

Trey

Just a feeling?

Eli

Okay, sometimes.

Clara

A state of mind.

Eli

Sometimes that's all it takes. Clara, can you say the same ?

Clara

I mean, I don't know if I'm, if I'm feeling as except I will say maybe Trey, you've inspired me maybe I'm also feeling beautiful today. In my own way. It's a state of mind.

Trey

It is, its inner. It's on the inside that counts.

Clara

Yeah. Well, if that's true. I don't know actually I take it back. But how are you feeling Eli?

Eli

Yeah, you know, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. I'm riding high off the coffee this morning. So, you know, in that way, I do feel beautiful, but surely it needs to come down in the near future. You know, you can't ride you can't ride this high for.

Clara

You can't be beautiful forever.

Eli

That's true. That's also true. Although some some might argue on the contrary. So you know, it's only it's only a matter of time before someone is like shilling. You know, longevity potion or whatever.

Clara

Yeah, well, I mean, it is nice. We each have our own unique definitions of beauty here on this call for Eli. It's having coffee.

Trey

Have you guys heard of the lipstick index?

Clara

No, wait, no. The lipstick index is like the beauty inflation thing? Right? That beauty products are less affected by inflation, which is interesting to me, but go on.

Trey

So the lipstick index is the theory that sales of affordable luxuries rise during economic downturns. It's a financial indicator that uses cosmetic sales to forecast bear markets or recession. So people have argued whether or not this is like real, but consumers will still spend money on small indulgences like lipstick, even when they personally have little cash. Do you guys spend? How is your beauty spending recently as we head into a possible bear market and recession?

Clara

I mean, I wouldn't say it's like unchanged. But I think that like my beauty spending has been like, I guess there's been spikes of like times that I've gotten really into wearing makeup and felt experimental are times that my skin has been really bad. And I've been like snake oil sales mend in Sephora, like maybe I'm just one serum away from clear skin. But no, I mean, I feel like honestly, in the past year, if anything I've like, started to try to buy less but buy better, which is maybe to the point of the lipstick index of like buying maybe three or four things that are maybe on the more expensive side are harder to get, but I will ultimately get more use out of and I think it's something that's like kind of across the board with like, Gen Z and I think even Millennials but like spending on skincare, I think has started to rival makeup even. Which is interesting. Like, I think I'll be curious to see how if that sort of stays or if that's kind of wrapped up within this lipstick index phenomenon, because I think for me, it's about buying stuff that means I have to buy less stuff. And I think that that's also sort of similar to the rise of like CeraVe and Dupes. But yeah, I don't know, Eli, how's your spending on three in one shampoo?

Eli

Well, yeah, as you'll find out in part 2. It's been pretty flat for all 25 years of my life, but I would say it's unchanged. I have a fairly like minimal.

Trey

Alright, let's get to it. Like what's the product that there's gotta be something that you've like, oh, this shit works for me. I'm gonna keep buying it. That you'd be like one thing we could take from your skincare or beauty routine?

Eli

Oh, I have this really nice. I think my dad put me onto it blind barber hair gel, which I think is probably the most expensive thing in my quote unquote beauty routine. The rest is like Dollar Store shit to be honest with you.

Trey

Are you a bar soap guy or?

Eli

No, no. He's a three in one guy. That's where I draw the line to draw the line at bars of soap. But I am a two in one guy.

Clara

Wait, it so the two and one is shampoo and body wash.

Trey

Something sinister about telling like cleans your skin. And your body.

Eli

I feel personally attacked by

Clara

I have to know this though like, do you use conditioner?

Eli

No, rarely.

Clara

Do you wash your hair every day?

Eli

No, I there's gonna be like a paid tier to this podcast.

Trey

Like saving you live from Dollar Store We're diving in is do you have a built in shame?

Eli

No, I don't wash my hair every day. So I don't like the way it looks. ,

Clara

Yeah, well yeah, you're not supposed to I was just curious, you know what the routine itself was like.

Eli

It's very, it's very minimalistic. But again, as you'll find out I have shifted towards kind of like, you know, the lowest tier of routine CeraVe facewash whatever people are listening are gonna be like this guy's absolutely pathetic. But know me, you know, there's more, there's more.

Trey

There's more than meets the eye. The eye of the beholder as we know.

Eli

It's also like, I'm not actively opposed to like a routine like, like that. I just feel like I've never, I guess I could put in the effort.

Clara

Well, what's your beauty? What's your beauty routine Trey?

Trey

So I think during the pandemic, especially, and I was doing this kind of before it was like on the CeraVe tip. But do you remember that girl What's On Vies Face? who became like super popular on Tik Tok during the pandemic? And she, all she did was like get sent products, basically from brands. And then she would like go through the ingredients and be like, no, this has fragrance. No, this is bad, no blah, blah, blah. And she had like an Amazon shop front or whatever. That had all the links to her products. Obviously it was affiliate. But I really like invested in her and trusted her and and built a routine around her recommendations. Treys parasocial relationship with the Tik Tok. Absolutely. And she's like, suddenly disappeared. I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe she like got tired of influencing. Maybe her skin broke out. Who knows? But she basically like the one thing she advocated for was sunscreen. And the one sunscreen that she talked about a lot was like a brand called Sun Aqua, I think. And you can get it at this. Like there's a store in Chinatown called like zero 35 millimeter. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's on like Mott Street or something. But

Clara

Oh, yeah maybe I have been in there. Yeah.

Trey

They have like, mostly, if not all Asian products. And Korean skincare brands I think are like apparently elite. And they have figured out how to make sunscreen that's like both SPF 50 and does not make you look like you're wearing sunscreen, like this new white cast, etc, etc. Anyway, so yeah, my my routine is like very simple, but I do use a lot of sunscreen.

Clara

Yeah, it's important. I am sort of haphazard with sunscreen application. I'll be honest. But yeah, I mean, I think it was interesting. What we are, I think Alex brought this up that if you're like anyone who brushes their teeth on a regular basis or washes their hands is a beauty consumer. And I think that it was just interesting to hear her say that because I think all of our routines are very different. But they're all like, beauty routines in their own ways. And I think a lot of the redefinition around beauty and wellness has been interesting in that, like I do feel a sense of like, satisfaction and like, mental like, okay, the day has started off, right? If, like once I complete the routine, but if it gets to like 1pm and I still haven't washed my face, I feel like emotionally distressed, like that's the only part of my life that's like that, like, I'm not like I need to work out every single day type of person. But that is like the only time per day that I carve out for myself like that. And I think for a lot of people it is like whether they recognize it or not like the time that you take to take care of yourself. And I think some brands have been better than others about sort of talking about that in a way that doesn't feel like exploitative or like bringing in, you know, things that like beauty brands, frankly, should not be speaking to like anti anxiety and things like that. But yeah, I don't know. I'm curious about both of your takes on how beauty has sort of become something that's like more in the self care category versus like the vanity category. And like indulgence.

Trey

Yeah, it's like on the one hand, I do think that brands should just stick to the specifically legal, you know, claims that only they can make which is like our product does this thing that we can legally say, but they we are entering this new kind of gray area. Whether or not your skin, facial lotion or whatever can make you a better person put you in a better mood, get you out of your depression, whatever, which it seems that there has been this huge shift and beauty brands starting to talk about how, how they can improve your life and those ways that are like more, more material, I suppose.

Clara

Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, it's a kind of more slash less, I mean, to your point about the gray area, though, I, I use Nurx online, which is like, so Nurx is an online prescription service. So you basically fill out a form about, you know, what you deal with, like, I have hormonal acne, or I have eczema, or I have, like, you know, I want a birth control that helps me with my acne type of thing. And then an online Nurse Practitioner basically prescribes you such and such quantity of different types of things. So I started using it last year, and it was kind of weird, and Eli and I have talked about this, but like the fact that I've just basically prescribed myself skincare, things like I, I have Trent Nolan, I have spiral actin, which is like a kidney knows the medicine can show you the medicine cabinet. But like, I have like this is technically I think it's something for like kidney or liver imbalance, but for whatever reason, in female bodies, it like it doesn't work. It works against like estrogen, or something like that. And it can really help with hormonal stuff. But basically, long story short is that like, the medicine I take, and my skincare routine have now become like intractable. And it's nothing that a doctor told me to do. I've essentially just like prescribed myself these things, like they're not going to tell you no, really, if you're willing to spend with them with no insurance, like, I don't know. And I, as someone who's personally involved in it, I can definitely see, you know, how this is probably not the best thing in terms of like, longer term, sort of having a medical record that was, you know, a doctor was involved versus me doing this to myself, but you know, such as life, beauty girls, 2022. Prescribed medication.

Trey

I think there is this inextricable link between healthcare, healthcare providers, how the health care system in America works, where if you go to a doctor, and you don't come away with a prescription, then you've somehow failed? And our skincare routines, how are we are taking care of ourselves, appearance wise. And I do think that like we are, in a sense, becoming our own doctors, and by proxy brands are responding by marketing their products to almost prescribe us for what we need, you know, like whether or not I don't know, Gen Z anxiety is like at an all time high, is arguable. But I think that brands are responding by saying like, Oh, our skincare routine can help with that, which really muddies the waters and I think can be like, seen as extremely dangerous. But also, what are the alternatives? I'm not sure.

Eli

Yeah, single payer health care system. What?

Clara

I mean, I don't want to say it's by design. But like, I do think there was some study that came out about how Gen Z is sort of less likely to seek traditional medical treatment like that, they're less likely to call up a doctor's office and book an appointment, they're less likely to have a primary care physician, but they're more likely to invest in like online therapy in these sort of like online pharmaceutical services. And so I think it is something that's, I don't know, something that is a trend that transcends beauty. And I don't know takes us to a third and worse or better place.

Eli

It is interesting, though, like you, you guys have read about the Adderall shortage. And how, like Gen Z in particular, it's just become like, way easier to, quote, diagnose yourself with Adderall, because I for one was always getting these ads or like, yeah, these videos on Tik Tok was like, you have telltale signs of like, ADHD or whatever. And I do worry that like, everyone's doctor has now some form of like a 30 second video version of web of a WebMD page, which I can only imagine is the worst case scenario because if you look on WebMD, it's always the worst case scenario. Like you cut your finger you have tetanus, or like you have a cold suddenly you have some weird like, you know viral zoonotic disease, and what's the response so you get pumped full of medicine. This is now turned into like some weird quasi

Clara

Big Pharma!

Eli

No, I mean, it's a good point. There's, there's no, it's because our system is not built off of preventative care.

Trey

Yeah. But yeah, there was a Y-poll survey that said Gen Z and millennials aren't turning to experts for wellness information. And I do think a lot of that information is coming to them through, you know, social platforms. And another kind of interesting stat was that 73% of surveyed Gen Z millennials, let themselves indulge, they look to be healthy, but are also more forgiving and kind to themselves. So in that sense, indulgence can take the form of like, I don't know eating out perhaps but it can also take the form of like, let me splurge on that low Roche Posay cream that I think will make me feel better. And it's actually a mental health treatment versus like a skincare solution.

Eli

Stick around for part two of the pod we're joined by Highsnobiety style writer Alexandra Polly, former coworker of Claros fun fact, to chat the flood of celebrities into the beauty space viewing dubious claims of holistic wellness, how millennial brands like Glossier are reaching Gen Z and the new kids on the block to take note of, tune in. Alex Polly, welcome to the pod excited to have you on today. I for one I'm excited about this pod because I'm outing myself right off the bat but I'm a as a two for one shampoo body wash guy I feel like I'm gonna learn a lot here. So welcome! How you doing today?

Alex

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm good. I have tomorrow off which I'm super excited about because it means I can watch the new Lindsay Lohan movie that's on Netflix.

Trey

It looks so good. I saw it got like middling reviews.

Eli

Wait very briefly what's what's the movie about?

Alex

It's called Falling for Christmas and it's like a rom-com where I think she's like at a ski resort or something. And I think she like gets a concussion. And she like falls in love with. I don't know someone who like works the resort.

Eli

Wow. It's a different type of Force Majeure. I guess that's the only movie I can think of a ski resort. So just a backtrack really quickly for our listeners out there. Was hoping you might be able to just give a brief intro about you and your beat at Highsnobiety. High snob, we'll call it

Alex

Sure. So yeah, I'm a style writer at Highsnobiety. I mean, I mostly cover fashion but also you know, I'm kind of shifting focus a little bit to the beauty sphere. I'll be able to like talk more about that I guess like in the new year, but we have like some things in the works that High snob relating to beauty so it's definitely gonna be an area that we're going to expand on. But yeah, style writer High snob previously I was at Hypebae, which is how I met Clara.

Clara

I was Beast side but yeah.

Alex

It was Bae versus Beast. But yeah, that's that's what I do.

Trey

Wait, what's the high level? Why are you moving more into beauty and what's is there like a big shift in terms of clicks? Are people more interested in beauty these days? Or is fashion just going down the tubes? What's What's the vibe?

Alex

Um, well beauty is something that I've always been like very interested in and passionate about kind of on the side and I think, you know, as we've seen a lot of these like, beauty streetwear crossovers like you know, with supreme releasing the nailpolish and you know, I'm sure you heard the news like, I guess it was like two months or so ago that like Complex now has this beauty column I think we're all kind of realizing that you know, beauty is definitely something that people are interested in, they're excited about and they like they want to engage with it

Trey

I think it's kind of like become this whole kind of holistic wellness practice and I know what kind of dive into that more but I'm sort of seeing a lot going on recently of how beauty intersects with like the athletic greens of the world and how you know, beauty is not is no longer just like your skincare routine, it is likely self care through skincare. I was just curious, like if you have a hot take on that if you think it's kind of bogus, or do you see there's like something really happening here with holistic health and beauty.

Alex

I mean, I totally like agree with what you're saying in terms of like a line between like beauty and like wellness being increasingly blurred. I mean, I think we can all agree that like, there's a lot of like predatory marketing that's happening like in the wellness industry. So I definitely have like mixed feelings. I'm sorry, someone's knocking on my door. Can I go grab it?

Trey

It's the wellness industry!

Clara

The wellness industry! They've heard us!

Alex

It was just a package. But yeah, wellness, beauty, it's all kinda becoming the same thing. I mean, for me though, personally, like, I think beauty is much more than just like makeup, skincare and wellness. I feel like beauty, I think and I think a lot of like young people are kind of beginning to catch on to this too. I really see beauty as like an extension of personal style. Like, I feel like everyone's bathroom cabinet, or like makeup bag or whatever, is really just like, a wardrobe. Like you kind of you switch out the products that you want to use, like depending on your mood. Like you curate the brands that you're like putting on your face, just like you would curate the brands that you wear every day.

Trey

I think that's really interesting, because like I saw this article in the Los Angeles Times about the suffocation of wellness, especially how Gen Z are kind of turning to this is what it said, turning to like next generation food, beauty and lifestyle brands that astute traditional messages around wellness. So for Gen Z, it was saying like wellness is whatever makes you feel good. And I think that brands especially have kind of glommed on to that fact and are trying to market their products in a way that evokes a feeling versus talks about like the reasons to buy, for example. So like, you know, how does the space wash make you feel versus how does it make your skin feel, for example, which I think is like a really interesting and like, quasi iffy tactic. But I'm curious if you've seen that a lot, or what kind of trends you're seeing in wellness space?

Alex

Yeah, I mean, I think like with the pandemic, we've all become more like acutely aware of like, how, like, the products that we own, like make us feel just because we've like been around them for so long. I mean, yeah, I definitely see a lot of like, the beauty space, kind of like CO opting the language of like psychology, it's something that like one of our contributors, Emily Jensen wrote about for Highsnobiety earlier this year. And yeah, I think it's like, it's definitely like a tricky road to go down. It's a little bit murky, when brands start saying this product is going to improve your mental health or help improve your mental health. This product is like, going to solve all your problems, basically. ,

Clara

Yeah, I thought it was interesting too, because I feel like what's happening with wellness right now is like kind of similar to what happened and like is still kind of happening with food where there are these certain words like, especially around like clean beauty natural products, organic ingredients that just like are not regulated. And I think that there's like, it's interesting because I think on Tik Tok there's a bunch of like beauty influencers and like skincare influencers who are really savvy about a lot of that stuff and are saying like, oh, like this is a scam, like, they want you to think that this is green juice for your face. And like, that's just not possible. Like that's not how vitamins work. And so yeah, it gets sort of interesting to like to watch Gen Z kind of call out a lot of those tactics and like instead are sort of at least as far as I can tell opting for like drugstore skincare brands like CeraVe and like, Roche Posay all of the ays.

Trey

It's like return to this, like caveman beauty packaged up and like, you know what I mean? Like CeraVe or CeraVe excuse me if I'm saying it wrong. It's like, you know, the lowest common denominator of just like skincare, which isn't a bad thing, but.

Eli

My entry point.

Trey

Yeah. Tell us more Eli, what's your, drop the skincare routine?

Eli

Nah. That's the premium tier. Again, skincare routine.

Clara

It's behind the paywall.

Trey

No, but to your point earlier, Clara I think like I'm super into fragrance specifically. And there's been kind of a slow journey and then has like very quickly, you know, become a rapid journey into this war against like, anything that's synthetic. So everyone's, oh clean and natural, like we only use natural ingredients. And the reason why specifically fragrance has come up with a lot of synthetic aroma chemicals that are used in fragrances, is because the naturals are first like toxic to your skin. And some levels like there's a body called the IFRA that regulates what you can put on your skin and like what percentages etc. But the second part of it is that like, a lot of stuff that gets like harvested around the world, whether it's sandalwood, whether it's vanilla, whether it's like roses, you know, is destructive to the climate and to the earth. And like even though a lot of its renewable resources, like the reason a synthetic chemical was created was so that we don't have to destroy the planet to create your like Bakker outreach by 40, for example. So I just I just think it's like interesting that what works to sell is not always the best, or you know, seen as the best for maybe our planet or maybe our skin or whatever the case may be.

Alex

Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm also super into fragrance. And yeah, I see a lot of that brands being like we're only using like naturals. And just like you said, synthetics, we use synthetics for a reason. Also, like some of the science that people love the most are synthetics. Like, I don't know, like ambroxan like thats a synthetic.

Trey

Channel number five is like mostly aldehydes.

Alex

Exactly. Yeah.

Trey

Yeah, it's really interesting

Clara

To sort of go back a little bit like to talking about brands and like how brands are sort of marketing to Gen Z. And like your point also earlier, Alex about how, like beauty and style are kind of synonymous. I feel like the first brand to like blow it up big in that way was Glossier but like your identity was that you were like a Glossier girl. And like I'm saying that first person, like there was a six month period that that really was me. And I think it's interesting to see them like partnering with Olivia Rodrigo and like, kind of trying to hold on to that place, but I don't know like, what you're seeing as far as like, beauty style trends, like has something sort of taken the place that Glossier had, is that just like not really a thing anymore, or is Glossier still like?

Trey

Glossier is dead I hear. RIP Glossier.

Alex

Um, yeah, Glossier is like a very interesting brand to think about, just because, like, they had such a big moment, and then they kind of just like crashed.

Trey

Was it like the Emily Weiss of it all? Or like, why did they? Why did they fumble so hard?

Alex

I think it was a lot of things. I think it was, you know, I hesitate to use this term, because in a lot of a lot of instance, I think it's super reductive, but I think you know, Glossier kind of fell out of popularity during like, you know, the decline of like, girl boss with like, you know, the wing shutting down and stuff like that. But I think it was like a lot of different things. I think people were realizing, one, how exclusive Glossier as a brand was, you know, their entire social media presence was all about, you know, looking a certain way projecting a certain like, very polished like lifestyle that most people honestly like, just can't afford to live. It was like girls in like, marble bathrooms with like, gold hardware and like, amazing, like, natural light with their like, I don't know, like, cloud paint, and like Aritzia pants on, I don't know, I think people were kind of catching on to that. And obviously, during like summer 2020, there was that whole thing about, you know, informer, employees of Glossier coming out and saying that they had experience like discrimination in the workplace, and just generally, it was kind of like a toxic environment from like what I've read online. So I think that definitely, like dealt in the a big blow, especially because during the pandemic, their stores were shut down. So they were like losing all of that like foot traffic and like relevance in that way. Also, you know, they failed to expand globally. They didn't sell in a lot of countries they weren't being distributed by like these huge retailers like Sephora or Ulta. So yeah, I think it was kind of a mix of all those things. I mean, they also they kind of stopped focusing as much on like their core product category, which is makeup and they started shifting to these like lifestyle products like hoodies and like bucket hats and stuff and people were like, this was like not what we come to Glossier for. So yeah, it was just like, it was a lot of stuff, I think.

Eli

Weren't those hoodies like super coveted, like box logo, adjacent hoodies or did I make that up? I'm not shilling for Glossier, but.

Clara

I don't know if it was like that.

Eli

All right, Clara. You know.

Alex

I remember I remember Timothee Chalamet wore on. And it was like a huge thing. People were like, oh, my god, Timothee Chalamet is in the Glossier hoodie like I have to get one now.

Eli

And they never recovered.

Clara

I feel like I must have blocked that I don't. But now I must see it.

Trey

But with Glossier, kind of moving into hoodies, I think we are now seeing Sephora starting to sell sex toys and also deliver through DoorDash I saw was announced yesterday. It's kind of this like category collapse of like, you can't do one thing really well. You're doing like 10 things. Maybe not amazingly, remains to be seen. But what do you think about that?

Alex

I mean with Sephora, I guess it like I mean, I had no idea they're delivering on DoorDash like that's crazy. I also didn't know they're selling sex toys. But I guess that like kind of makes sense. Um,

Trey

Pick up your like pimple patches and your redactant.

Alex

I mean, I guess for like a retailer as big as Sephora. Like, it makes sense. Like, they kind of want to become like the Amazon of beauty, I guess. And in a lot of respects, like they they already are. Like, Sephora is where I go to buy like almost all of my, like higher end like makeup products. I don't know, I guess for smaller brands, it really doesn't make sense to me. Um, but I would say in the case of Sephora, that is one instance in which I will say sure, like, I'll have my mascara like delivered by DoorDash.

Clara

I was gonna say, I mean, it doesn't sound terrible. Yeah. When I do it, maybe.

Trey

Yeah, I also saw that the founders of Star Face, which is like the pimple patches that you put on your face, have launched something called Julie, which is a morning after pill targeting Gen Z. The founders I guess, are going like heavy on Tik Tok really targeting Gen Z. And I mean, there's already like sinister enough things happening in America and in regards to how things or like, medical things are marketed to teens. But this just feels like, I don't know, the lowest rung of commodifying like a female necessity. But I should not be speaking to this anyway.

Alex

That's so interesting. I didn't realize that it was like made by the same people as Star Face. I saw commercial for that recently. And I was like, Whoa, like, what is this was like a cool, a cool version of plan B.

Trey

Right? And isn't that like, isn't that strange? I mean.

Eli

You got to wonder the brief.

Trey

Right? Like target demo Gen Zer on Tik Tok product, morning after pill, but cute, make it cute. Influencers, let's go live.

Alex

Make it make it slay.

Clara

I feel like it does go to the whole category collapsing though. And like what we were talking about at the top of like, beauty, wellness, skin care, health care all becoming synonymous. And like even Sephora selling sex toys like sexual wellness as part of that sexual wellness is also like a very new term, which is also interesting that, that's, I guess, a story for a separate pod. But just thinking about kind of, I guess, on Gen Z's behalf and I feel like Emily spoke about this in her piece too. Like when beauty products become associated with things that are health products and sort of your purchase or like engagement with that industry becomes less about sort of like self empowerment and more about like, you need you should be doing these things like the messaging is kind of paradoxical, like on when and I feel like so much about it, or at least what we think about with younger generations and beauty is that like, it's a much more democratized and kind of take what you want no makeup makeup kind of thing, but I think that it has kind of, I don't know, blurred the lines, in a lot of ways that are sometimes funny and sometimes are like insidious, like the plan B pill by Star Face I dont know.

Alex

Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this like enter intersection of wellness slash health slash beauty. Um, I mean, for example, like, we're seeing a lot of beauty brands like branch out and start making supplements. Like, for example, like I think Augustinus Bader has some sort of supplement for your skin. And I mean already, like the supplement industry is like so unregulated, they can kind of make whatever claims they want. And when, like, beauty comes into that equation, I feel like we're just gonna see a ton of like, ton more products coming onto the market that really just don't do anything. I mean, like Jennifer Aniston, like, for example, she's like the face of like, what's it called, like Vital Protein or something, and they make like a collagen powder. And like, I've personally spoken to many doctors, and I think like a lot of other outlets have reported on this as well, that like, there's really like N\not very much evidence that ingesting collagen like improves the appearance of your skin. So I think, yeah.

Trey

I always remember my like science, my like grade nine like biology teacher or something being like, your liver does 100% of the things that whatever your supplements you're putting into your body, you know, would do like, it'll either be filtered out by your kidney, and liver, or you'll get those vitamins like in your food. I don't know, I'm not hating on anyone who's a supplemental, but.

Eli

It's the Canadian, Canadian education system.

Trey

Our healthcare system.

Eli

We're not learning about that we have like Alex Jones selling like, God knows what on Amazon.

Trey

Like collagen peptides. All that stuff. It is funny, though, because I think we've seen a lot of research that says that, how Gen Z views, wellness is changing. And it's less about like, maybe buying things that are, have a direct connection to your physical well being and more so that they're buying things to indulge, and it probably like it's more effective for your mental health and making you feel good. And in that sense, I think that the lines have really been blurred, like probably with the help of Gwyneth Paltrow and Goop and like, things that, you know, haven't really been vetted properly, but have just like gone on the market. And we're slow to catch up. But I do think that it is kind of scary that it has reached maybe, maybe before in like the Goop era, I'm talking like 2012/2013 or whatever, when it was still on the rise, and she was, you know, hawking, like vagina steaming and stuff like that. And it was like seen as hilarious, but also marketed more towards older folks. And now we've gone like full circle, and now we're marketing to 13 year olds to purchase like, whatever that morning after pill is. I don't know. Am I just a concerned parent?

Alex

No, yeah. I mean, yeah, you're totally right about all of that. It. I mean, I think you're right, that it's like kind of scary, that the industry is like saying that buying things is going to improve your mental health, because then automatically you create a camp of like haves and have nots. And like at the end of the day, I mean, I think any mental health professional will say that like taking care of your mental health and your physical well being like, it has to be a holistic approach, like buying like a $200 cream is not going to like reduce your anxiety in the long term like sure, like doing my skincare routine at night, like it does relax me it does make me feel good. But I think like as someone in therapy, like the things that helped my mental health the most like don't involve buying products.

Trey

Yeah, I'm just, I'm just confused when I see like a 14 year old on Tik Tok, who's like, Barbara Sturm face mask is the best face mask I've tried. I know it's expensive, you guys I know. It's expensive. It's like $140 or whatever. And you're like, how, what kind of allowance you have like why in the world is happening?

Alex

I actually I recently saw this like, horrifying Tik Tok of this college aged girl who's like, how I spend my money with a $15,000 month allowance.

Trey

I mean, maybe it's just like late and jealousy but I feel, yeah.

Eli

I think I saw that same Tik Tok. It's kind of like, similar to the I mean, maybe not anymore, but like, the like people who work at Tech and it's like a day in the life of like working at whatever company it's like, you know, like get my eat drink my athletic greens and we go to the cafeteria for the free lunch. Then we go to the happy hour.

Trey

What was that like weird fake drink that was proliferated like around that kind of same Goop era 2012 and it was like this brown milkshakey thing that people drink.

Alex

I think I know what you're talking about. Is it like Moon juice?

Trey

No, it was like less natural and it was like, it was like pre soy milk, but, Soylent!

Alex

Oh Soylent. Oh my god. Actually, I like I used to drink it. Like I didn't replace all my meals with it. But I would sometimes like instead of getting lunch, I would just drink Soylent, which is like looking back. It's like pretty gross.

Trey

Yeah, well, is it banned now? Was it like four-lokoed? I forget what happened to it.

Alex

I don't know.

Clara

I mean, I think it still exists.

Eli

It exists. It's on all the you can find it all the major e-commerce platforms.

Trey

Today's episode is sponsored by Soylent.

Eli

Soylent Green actually is one of my favorite movies. So I don't know, highly recommend.

Trey

Well, one thing too I really wanted to ask you about is we have seen a very interesting trend, where suddenly every male celebrity has not only a tequila brand, but also a skincare brand. Specifically, like Pharrell has Human Race. Brad Pitt has Le Domain. I'm not even sure if he speaks French, but like, cool. What gives?

Alex

Um, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on celebrity beauty brands. I am over them. I think like the majority of people are over them. I don't understand why celebrities keep coming out with them. In some cases, like sure it makes sense, like Lady Gaga having a makeup line like yes, I get that. But, like with Brad Pitt skincare line, I don't understand at all. Like he doesn't have great skin. He's never spoken publicly about being interested in beauty at all. Same with Jared Leto. I think in the Jared Leto interview about his skincare line, he literally told Vogue, I don't know anything about this. Like okay then why are you launching a skincare brand,

Trey

Right? Like not to marketing 101 them but if you're selling a product, the first step is to believe in that product.

Alex

Yeah, exactly.

Trey

Which I feel like got lost somewhere.

Clara

You tell them Trey!

Trey

Jared Leto if you're listening, but no similarily Brad Pitt and his interview said like I don't even wash my face or something. And I actually previously wrote about this as it pertains to fragrance because like Adam Driver is the face of Burberry hero or Johnny Depp as the long standing face of Dior Souvage. And Robert Pattinson is the face of like, I think, I don't know Prada or something. Like all of them have publicly talked about their lack of hygiene and skincare routine. Specifically, Robert Pattinson goes on and on about like how stanky he is essentially and like there's this hilarious disconnect to me and I know they're marketing to men who are like oh, I want to be seen as masculine and rugged like these star turning you know celebrities but how are you selling something that smells good or it's designed to make you look better with like the stinkiest and in most cases now canceled men? I don't really understand.

Alex

Yeah.

Trey

I can't fathom.

Alex

Yeah, I mean, like you said, I think their marketing like mostly in the case of like these colognes for example, like Burberry hero with Adam Driver and the Eau Sauvage with Johnny Depp. They're definitely they're marketing towards men who want to be seen as like on par with these like hyper masculine like guys. In that case, like, I don't know. It's tricky and yeah, it doesn't make any sense really.

Trey

I think we just need like some kind of sales rap sheet for how Le Domain is selling or the Jared Leto thing is selling.

Alex

Yeah.

Clara

That's what I'm confused by is like who is like the Brad Pitt skincare line for? For instance, like is it for you know, men that are like sort of Brad Pitt's like age peer level that like want to be seen as like I don't know aging gracefully in some way and like his wooden bottle is like I don't know appealing to them in that sense like or is it like you know marketing to people like us who are kind of like or I mean like me who are like tapped in and like want to try out of curiosity like he's a big enough name that like the powers that be think that it'll still drive sales because I feel like and you being closer to it, I'm curious your take because I feel like I saw a bunch about the Jared Leto eye cream and I never saw it again. Same with the Brad Pitt like I haven't heard of anyone buying it. The Elon Musk burnt hair perfume did buy that but that's like clearly a stunt. So like, is it just kind of to like, I mean, is it just a PR type of thing where like they want to be like Brad get in there like launch a line? Or you know, is it deep?

Alex

Yeah, I don't know it is yeah, again, it doesn't make sense to me. I like I also don't know anyone who's actually using like Brad Pitt skincare line or Jared Leto was like what is it like $100 eye cream? I haven't like seen anything about it like on Tik Tok. It's not like like young kids are like buying these products and being like, actually like they're really good. So yeah, I don't know who the who the customer is supposed to be. These are like ultra expensive products. It's not like they're like younger fans are going to be like, splashing out $200 For a small thing of cream.

Trey

Apparently the Jared Leto eye cream has prickly pear extract though, which may be why.

Clara

That's enticing.

Trey

Which may be why it's $97. It's It's his fascination with the rugged beauty of the desert, which has inspired him. Imagine Jared Leto experiencing the rugged beauty of the desert and being like, I'm I need to make an eye cream. Right here right now. Let me transfer this experience into an eye cream.

Alex

Yeah, I mean, I guess with like Jared Leto is brands, the customers may be like, you know, kind of like an aging hippie who like doesn't want to use like, only wants to use like all natural, like clean products.

Trey

They must be a tactic as well to be like, I don't wash my face and a man being like, hell yeah, that's me too. That's why I'm gonna buy this.

Alex

Yeah,

Trey

That's all I can imagine. I have no other I have no other insight into like, why you might buy that? Because I don't know who watches the Matthew McConaughey Lincoln commercials and it's like, that's that's me. I want to rent out a Lincoln now.

Alex

I mean, with like the Brad Pitt line. There's also like the tie in with like, the wines since they like make the products out of like, the grapes that he grows on his own vineyard or whatever. So I don't know if they're like trying to target like, wine people.

Clara

Like a merch line film vineyard essentially, like beauty merch.

Alex

Yeah. And it's interesting, because he's actually currently like in a custody battle with Angelina Jolie over that vineyard. So.

Clara

I was about to ask, is that the same vineyard? Currently, I mean, I guess, sort of broadening it to like to unisex beauty and men's beauty in general. Like, I don't think that this necessarily fits in super well. But I'm curious just like on your take on the landscape, because I feel like in COVID days, there were lots of articles about like, men are finally kind of paying for beauty and skincare products or like paying for plastic surgery or paying for like even just sort of like more intense procedures like Eli sent me an article about the leg extensions.

Alex

I think I watched some like video on YouTube. I think it might have been Vice. Honestly, that was like followed one guy in India who bought the procedure done and he was like. Yeah, I'm not so sure like, I'd do that again.

Eli

Yeah, you just get like personal you just get like purposely Nancy Kerrigan-ed. Like please take a bat to my kneecaps just so I can grow a couple inches more. But yeah, sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.

Trey

Someone I follow on Instagram, who I will not name traveled to Turkey to get like a hair transplant and has been documenting his journey of like chia pet growth since and it's very interesting.

Alex

Is it working?

Trey

It is working. It does look a bit like this look a bit too thick. Almost like it's probably just like, you know,

Clara

Have you guys seen the lady on Tik Tok? Who makes men's tupees?

Alex

No, no, I have.

Clara

Oh my gosh, I'm gonna all send through some links later. But it's really interesting because I was thinking about that, like, with the leg extensions and with the hair transplant and with the tupee stuff like I feel like men's beauty or like men's wellness practices have always kind of been around but it's always been kind of like the butt of a joke like a toupee. Like her whole thing is that she wants to like normalize like baldness. She is a woman that does the toupees and she's like normalize that like some men go bald at 20 and they don't want to be bald their whole lives and like, it shouldn't be sort of, like ridiculed necessarily. But like, oftentimes when men do seek beauty, like it is ridiculed and like, or it happens under these really extreme circumstances, like, leg lengthening. And so I'm curious, like, if you see, sort of in the men's landscape that there's sort of, like, more acceptance, or I guess just like, where is like, where's your head at between toupees and the legs? because right now, I'm kind of all over the place and like, trying to figure out like, Okay, what's happening, actually? And what is like, you know, what is Brad Pitt selling, which feels very separate?

Alex

Yeah, I mean, definitely, like, during the pandemic, and maybe even like, a little bit before the pandemic, we saw this, like, boom in brands, being like, this is makeup for men, or like, this is skincare for men. Like, I remember Chanel launched this, like, men's makeup collection, that was like, a nude nail polish or something. And this like, very, like subtle, like concealer stick. Um, and at the time when that launched that was like, like, whoa, that's like, daring. That's like risky. But I think now, now I feel like especially like young people are realizing that we've kind of evolved past needing to, like, label beauty products as like for men or for women. I mean, it is like, if you really think about it, it's such an outdated, like, thought to be like, this shampoo is like for men or like the shampoo.

Clara

This two in one shampoo and Eli's case.

Alex

Yeah exactly. Like, I don't know, in my mind like, anyone who brushes their teeth or washes their hair is a beauty consumer. And that's like, literally everyone. So yeah, I think for me, and I think for a lot of like younger people, the like differentiation between for men and for women products is just, it's very old fashioned and outdated at this point.

Trey

And I've also got this theory that during the pandemic, when all those celebrities were locked in their homes, what better way to make money than by starting a beauty brand that, you know, coincides with the rise of people, especially men on Tik Tok, talking about how they use makeup and like starting to be themselves more and normalizing wearing makeup. And then boom, bam-bam, you got like hairstyles pleasing suddenly. Which I just think is like, kind of the same thing where all these musicians who couldn't tour anymore did like concerts in the metaverse to make, you know, a million bucks in one go kind of thing. So, I don't know if it was like a pandemic thing, but I do think that like, the circumstances were right for them to start brands.

Alex

Yeah, I mean, I also think we're kind of like, shifting away from this idea that like, beauty products are like that, like buying a beauty products, with the end goal of like, looking better, or, like more attractive in mind. I think, like younger people, especially Gen Z are like, okay, makeup is not just about like covering up a pimple or like concealing your under eye bags. It's really like, a form of self expression. It's like, it can be a form of art. Um,

Trey

It's my therapist.

Alex

Yeah, exactly. And like, I mean, self expression is something that like every single person no matter what your gender is, can relate to.

Eli

So Alex, where can our listeners find you online? Your outakes if you're on or off Twitter? Who knows? By the time this goes out?

Alex

Yeah, who knows if I'll be on Twitter. You can find my work on Highsnobiety my instagram handle is extremely long. It is, @PolybyAlexforAlexandraPoly.

Eli

That's good. We should make the name of this podcast like referencing fragrance like that.

Trey

Are you verified on Twitter?

Alex

No. Oh my god. No, I've never been verified. But my Twitter is @PollybyAlex. Also clever. I got like zero likes on my Twitter. So I don't know.

Clara

Well all that changes. When the pod drops.

Alex

Yeah, my Twitter's like fully in its flop era so.

Eli

Well, thank you again. Definitely if you're out there listening be sure to subscribe to FM by Day One. You can find us on Spotify. And yeah, thanks again for stopping by.

Alex

Thank you for having me.