Eli

Day One FM. Welcome back. Today on the pod we have Emily Sundberg. She writes a weekly newsletter or daily newsletter, excuse me, called Feed Me. It covers internet culture, business news, LinkedIn updates, job postings really runs the gamut. I thought it was a very fun conversation. But before we get there, I just want to say welcome back, Clara because unfortunately, Clara couldn't visit, couldn't visit. A sick visit. couldn't join us on the pod with Emily. So I just want to say like, you're okay, you know, now that we're all trapped in this room without ventilation.

Clara

We're trapped again. But yeah, I was I was sick yesterday. I'm admittedly still a little bit sick today, but it's only five minutes, you know?

Eli

Yeah. We can hear it. Yeah.

Clara

Sorry. No, but excited to hear the first. I don't know the first pod I'm not on.

Eli

Wow. All right now.

Clara

We don't have to keep that in.

Eli

Starts to see a pattern. No, no, no worry. You don't have to join, you're sure. You're not feeling okay. You're sure you're feeling good?

Clara

It's like whatever the fifth Beatle, you know, we don't need you.

Trey

You mean Miyoko No,

Clara

I mean, you know, apt analogy.

Eli

No, you're you're an integral part.

Clara

Your'e so much more than Yoko ever was. I'm kidding. Anyway.

Eli

But yeah, I mean, I had a thought it was fun Trey shifting my attention over to Trey. But yeah, we cover I mean, wow. Frog club, potential beef with the frog club Zinn's decontextualized oysters.

Trey

This is a word salad to most people, frog club.

Eli

You can skip ahead 15 seconds.

Clara

It's the connection for today.

Trey

We talked about we talked about the CPG category. A lot of new things in the drink space. Some hot takes on all the pop the prebiotic soda. Everyone's favorite downtown restaurant frog club and where we get our news, which is...

Eli

Is a hot topic. Yeah. Yeah.

Trey

I was gonna say like, what where do you guys get your news? Or what is your media diet look like? What platforms?

Eli

Imagine opening a fire hose. When you open your laptop.

Trey

Well, no, like, in all seriousness, I feel like this is, you know, kind of corny, maybe. But I have over over a decade, like kind of cultivated the perfect feeds.

Clara

Well, Trey care to share?

Trey

Let me tell you.

Eli

What is this fountain of youth?

Trey

You know? Okay, so first of all I follow, I follow all these journalists on Twitter that I've kind of like carefully added to my feeds, once they kind of announced their positions or whatever, which is, like, gotten me in good stead, basically. So I can avoid all the other BS there. But I get the stories immediately from the journalist before they're posted by the outlets themselves often, so I get to them first. I feel like I'm on the app VOLV, which I just think is a great app to kind of distill the news and the little bite sized chunks.

Clara

Is it like a Feedly type of thing, like a sort of?

Trey

It's like a better version of Apple news, where it just serves you not only like mainstream outlet news, but also substack newsletters that are interesting. And you kind of scroll through like TikTok almost. But...

Eli

It's a new community led newsletter.

Trey

No, it's generally interesting, but yeah, and then, you know, a bunch of random substacks. I just feel like, it's obvious to say, but all of that took a long time. And I kind of feel like, yeah, that's the secret. Like, that's the real secret to getting an informed cultural brain like

Eli

Sounds like perhaps cultivating taste, right? Yeah. I know.

Clara

So your your new diet is a fire hydrant, though. There's no curation aspect to it.

Eli

I mean, there's definitely curation. But that's okay. Okay. Let's not although I did find like such an amazing reel of like, 12 year old hustle culture. That's like, everyone says, act like your age, and then it cuts to like a mob. I think I send it to you. It's like a montage of like, stock charts and zoom meetings. This kid who's like super stressed out filming me at work. But no, I mean, I subscribe to a lot of newsletters. I'm on Twitter on big phone, which is what I call the iPad.

Trey

You have an iPad?

Eli

Oh, yeah.

Trey

That's that's big.

Eli

Oh, yeah.

Clara

that's a real commitment to the scroll.

Eli

No, a lot of newsletters. And then I'll save like longer reads for the weekend primarily.

Trey

Do you use like pocket or something or do you have?

Eli

I use Feedly? I do have a million tabs. Millions of have tabs.

Trey

What are your favorite outlets?

Eli

You like the ft?

Trey

I like the I like the ft.

Eli

I love that every time I copy and paste a quote, it gives me the copyright.

Clara

It happened to me today.

Eli

Their legal team overwrite it with the steak. I know steak. The steak article.

Trey

What's going on with steak frits?

Clara

They're trying to come up with new cuts of meat is the real thing. Meat innovation, because I guess there used to be more in there sort of wondering if they've you know, now reached the edge of the cliff when it comes to ways to kind of cow but from a quote standpoint, it's really I mean, it's quite graphic. It's a little disgusting. Um, but yeah, straight from the Financial Times. I also liked the Financial Times.

Eli

Well, you're a big apple news kind of...

Clara

Well much like Joe Biden. I do love Apple news. But I'm curious about volv because I do think it's good. Yeah, cuz I don't think the Apple news like the algorithm or whatever that's in there. It serves me some stuff where it's like recommended for you and it's interesting, but for the most part, like the top five stories of the day is like five cool recipes you can make with beans. You know what I like? It's still like kind of buzzfeedy.

Eli

10 virus' to watch now.

Clara

You know, obviously do love WNYC love the BBC News Hour.

Trey

Yeah, I do that every morning.

Clara

Um, and then honestly, in terms of my daily it's kind of starts out like just going homepage to homepage. There's really no science to it. But then I typically deep dive into something or another which today is steak and steak cuts. But you know, tomorrow...

Eli

But yeah, we learn about Emily's, well, we try and learn at least about Emily's news diet, among other things, so, let's tap in... But one thing we learned... Okay, no, no, go.

Trey

I just one thing I thought was interesting is obvious to you maybe but like she's doing a real journalism whereas like we talk a little bit about how the Main Street outlets have kind of lost their sauce aggregation nation over here. Whereas like, it's these kinds of newsletters like Emily's Sundbergs Feed Me that really do a good job of, you know, following up leads getting, you know, interesting things coming through the comments section of the newsletter connecting with people in real life. All these things that journalists used to do that sadly, they don't do anymore because they're chained to the desk. For those clicks. Click farm.

Eli

Day in the Life of them day in the life and they click mind. Alright, cool. Let's run it.

Trey

Let's carve it up. Like a new kind of meat from.

Clara

Oh, that's good. That's good. That's a good full circle.

Trey

We're good?

Eli

We're good. Emily Sundberg, welcome to the pod.

Emily Sundberg

Thank you for having me. I'm pretty good today. Of course.

Eli

Welcome back stateside, I was reading and you can fill in our listeners as to where you are you ventured off to but I was reading in last year you were part of the Monday media diet from wises interesting, and they always ask plane or train. And you said train my fear flying gets 5% worse every year. I have to know given recent demands and developments was that 5% increased at all or you weren't really thinking about it.

Emily Sundberg

I got Xanax, okay.

Trey

Okay, so there we go.

Emily Sundberg

So we're, it's fine. Everything's fine.

Eli

Honestly, once those doors closed, what can you do? Right? What can you do? Yeah, yeah,

Trey

I always think I'm the guy that will be able to, like, you know, when you're in the exit row, they're like, Oh, can you push the door out? And I'm like, easy. I got this. I've seen so many movies. But like, if it came down to it, you just, you're I'm flying out that window?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah. I mean, it's a tough time to make that joke with all the Boeing stuff.

Trey

I know, all, you know, apologies, victims.

Eli

Sorry to all our listeners over at Boeing.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah.

Eli

Yeah. But so you're in South America. And you mentioned before we jumped on that you actually ran into some some folks who subscribe to newsletter. What was good with that?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, well, when I started posting that I was in Buenos Aires, when I got there. I got so many emails from readers who were asking to hang out or get drinks, or they were sending recommendations. That was great when local readers are sending recs. And then there was one night where chick emailed me and was like, I'm pretty sure I'm staying in your hotel in Buenos Aires. But she was from the US. But that was weird.

Eli

Do you often like entertain those types of that type of parasocial relationship? Or like eh?

Emily Sundberg

I meet a lot of people from my letter. I mean, there's there's a lot of people who who sort of work in industries that I'm interested in so whether whether it becomes like an interview opportunity or an investment opportunity or just somebody good to know to network with definitely and then and then I went to Uruguay to this tiny beach town that was two hours away from the airport. And a woman emailed me and said, I saw you're in Jose Ignacio, I'm staying at this hotel do you happen to be here? And she was this woman from France who happened to be vacationing there at the same time. And she reads the letter and we hung out a few times. It was it was cool.

Eli

That is pretty cool.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, it was nice.

Trey

So are you used to it now because like I, I have a friend with a pretty big newsletter and not those like, comparatively, but we were out to we were out for lunch one time at like some Ukrainian diner or something like downtown. And this girl like, this doesn't happen to me. So I thought it was strange. This girl approached us. Very nice, very cool. But it was like, hello, are you like this person? I read your newsletter, like I'm really big fan. I loved this thing. And like, my friend is so gracious. And it was just like, it was a cute interaction. But from my point of view, I was like, This is crazy. Like, what do you want from us? What is going on?

Emily Sundberg

I was stopped once on the street in Soho, around the holidays, somebody, I was waiting for light to change to a different color. And a woman tapped me on the shoulder and was like, Are you Emily? I'm pretty sure I read but it was so chill. She was like, oh, yeah, you're great at what you do. I would love to get coffee sometime. And that was the only time it was like that. I guess I've been to events and stuff. And people have just said, I read your letter. My dad is a teacher. And he recently had a student be like is your daughter Emily? Is that weird? No. He doesn't get what I do.

Trey

Well that's a good segue. So like, what do you do? Can you explain, you know, how you got started in this? Where were you before? Maybe that, like informed your approach to this? Like, what, what do you do?

Emily Sundberg

Definitely. Um, so I write a daily newsletter. It's about, I would say culture through the lens of business. And both of those things. I mean, any one of us at this table could say that our job is culture through the lines of business. So it you can you can interpret the letter however you want it to. But I started it a little bit over a year ago, I was actually working at Meta at the time. And I noticed this uptick in my group texts were friends who worked in investing, and friends who worked in restaurants and friends who worked at newspapers, were all starting to get really excited about workplace and business and startup news. And they were sort of talking about it in the same way that they had talked about celebrity news a few years prior or fashion news. And at the same time, a lot of celebrities were becoming founders. So like these important business figures were becoming public people. And then the celebrities that we've been following our entire lives were becoming founders of businesses and raising money. And I, my thesis was that there's an appetite for that enough that, you know, the Wall Street Journal wasn't approaching the same way. And that mean, something like the skim wasn't doing in the way that spoke to me. So from day one, when I started, I knew I wanted it to be daily, I had a substack following already, because over COVID, I treated that substack as a place that I wrote scary short fiction. And I had a bit of a following. And then a few weeks after I started the substack, I wrote a story for New York Magazine that that sort of blew up as much of a story at New York Magazine, Ken and I got a bunch of readers there who were sort of looking me up and now my to answer your original question. My job is writing this letter. I do some consulting projects on the side, I just finished a project for Shopify, I've worked with other small clients. I'm working on a magazine story right now that the editor asked me to write based on a newsletter that I wrote a few weeks ago. So I still do like those side projects, but it's mostly dedicated to the letter.

Trey

That's cool. So like, what kind of examples are things that you like? What would be in your like newsletter regularly that people would sign up for.

Emily Sundberg

So any types of consumer fundraising news I would say majority of my audience is mostly interested in consumer business news. I like to get some like this person quit this job to go to this place like LinkedIn news, but elevated. I like to include a decent amount of hospitality news like this, this restaurant expanding this hotel group is doing this weird marketing thing. I actually asked my readers yesterday and in a chat on substack what all their jobs were because I want to make sure that what I'm writing is relevant to them. And I think almost 1000 people have answered now which is incredible, but the range was outrageous. It was government jobs, beauty jobs, teachers, people who work in venture funding people who work at hedge funds, like all over the board, I'll have to go through it at some point and try to make something out of it. I have a question. So you spoke about like LinkedIn and job postings. And within that why is this interesting. You mentioned that you spent a lot of time there. Because you can kind of your words predict the trajectory of a company. This morning. In your newsletter, you talked about how USC is hiring for like a what was it like a wellness or mental care professional care? Self-care professor, yeah.

Eli

But like alongside that type of job listing, is there anything that's like catching your eye in terms of the types of jobs that companies are hiring for besides like, whatever, Chief AI something or other? Hopefully it's more interesting if it's more niche, but like, is there anything that you're like trends that you're seeing? To that extent?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, last summer I started, I'm sure if you guys have read my letter for a bit, or if anybody reading or listening to this has. Last summer, I started seeing a lot of big luxury and beauty brands hiring for fragrance fragrance jobs. So like glossier was hiring more fragrance people and they only have one fragrance right now. So it was clear that they wanted to expand in that direction. And a few other brands were doing something similar. And I had a prediction that fragrance was going to be really big. So I took a class at FIT across the street last semester, to study fragrance because I had a feeling that this industry was going to blow up and I wanted to know what I was writing about. And it was correct. Yeah. So like, that's a perfect example of kind of tracking job boards and seeing where people are leaning. Something like the self care professor is funny, because it has a really sexy title. But if you look at the job description, it's really just a beauty marketing professor.

Eli

Sounds like most job descriptions.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, I mean, like, I'm sure Sweetgreen has posted a job before like chief salad officer or another thing is when a when a team posts a bunch of jobs in a marketing department, you kind of wonder like, what happened there? Why where were the people that were working there, and then you can kind of dig in to turmoil within a company, which I do often.

Eli

Yeah, associate fandom expert, and you're just like a community manager. Yeah. Trey's really into fragrance. So...

Trey

I'm super into fragrance. We can talk about that in a sec. But I was curious, like, you must get probably because of your readership, a lot of people being like, Hey, did you hear XYZ thing? Like, has anything come through that way that you've been like, wow, this is a real lead I should like look into or is it just like, oh, good to know. Thanks.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, actually. So I've had, I've had a lot of different jobs since I graduated. And when I was in school, I interned a lot. So I've had sort of networks of coworkers since I was 18, which is has built an awesome network of group chats for people that I'd not necessarily hanging out with all the time, but that I'm in communication with because it either benefits them or me or both of us. And it is like a professional network that just happens in industry specific group texts. And I have one friend who texted me about that, did you guys read the letter about that app, Kiki, and the this, it's this Australian. It was a housing, like a subletting app. And my friend texted me and she was like, I recently got scammed by this company. And they've decided overnight that they want to pivot to being a, a women only member's club, even though the team is all men,

Trey

Oh, my god.

Emily Sundberg

I asked a bunch of people about it. And I was the only person who wrote about it. And then the next day, a bunch of outlets in Australia, these these guys are Australian, and their company was backed by Australian capital. All these international newspapers, were picking it up. One of my editors asked if I could write a longer story about it. And I was like, I'm not interested in spending any more time on this ridiculous story yet, then the company shut down for a few weeks because, and, and but that's a perfect example of a friend being like, I got burned by this place. This is what went wrong. Take it away, like, you know, and I'm happy to do that reporting. Sometimes it's hard not to have an editor. And those letters usually take a little bit longer because I have to run it by people.

Eli

Do you think there's like less kind of scoop investigative reporting than there was in previous years? Just Give. I mean, to me, that sounds super interesting. Like I actually hadn't heard of any of that. But I feel like now all we have is like, here's what's trending on Tik Tok and like, here's like what's happening with AI? And I haven't besides maybe I don't know if you read anything on like 404 media. I think they do a really good job of like investigative reporting, but I never get like, Wow, holy shit. This As companies doing something that's bad and people are getting scammed or harmed mentally or physically anymore.

Emily Sundberg

I think it There are news organizations that focus on that. I think that puck is really good at that. I think that the information is really good at that. I think that there are a few new news companies that are probably a little less scared of advertisers or board members that are able to do that. Yeah. Where traditional media organizations aren't doing that because of internal politics or making advertisers happy or out of fear of ruffling feathers when it's already a fragile industry.

Trey

That's sad to me, because like, I don't know, what was that thing that happened in GQ. Like, they ran some piece and the guy, like, texted the owner or something. And it was like, got completely. I forgot what that was sanitized. I do too. But I think it was like a CNN like, David's off love thing or whatever. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, to your point, I think it's interesting that like, the places where these scoops were originally coming from like these, you know, big media companies are now either beholden to advertisers and can't write that kind of thing anymore, or scared to do it for whatever reason, and that, you know, that media has now shifted to this more like, individualized, I guess, media sphere. Yeah, it's like you.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, and a lot of other again, like Puck, they do a great job at that. They'll send out an email blast and be like breaking same with the information. I get breaking headlines from them all the time. And then you'll see it in the Times or The Cut days later, because of whatever reason, right?

Trey

Well, there's like, machinations behind all these things. Like, yeah, let me bring my story to the pitch meeting and blah, blah, blah. But how do you fill a newsletter every day?

Emily Sundberg

It's my job. You know, like you show up here every day. And I don't know how often you're recording a podcast, but I wake up and that's what I do to get paid. And I you know, my first job after school is at The Cut. So I'm familiar with how a newsroom works. I'm, I'm lucky that I was there during a time I think before this total like fragmentation of newsrooms, but I learned a lot about organization there and process. And I'm not the most organized person in the world. But I think that those are some habits that I've, like, taken with me. Yeah, hold on to. But it's it most of my day happens between like six and noon, or most of other people's days are happening nine to five, like, it's just an earlier, earlier situation. And I have my I have my Google docs on me at all times, I actually just hired a paper. Not really. I just hired a an intern, this this guy named Zach, who I met a few weeks ago, who's one of the readers of the letter. So he's actually been a big help just with editing because I found that when I was publishing letters, before I sufficiently was caffeinated. There were a lot of typos or broken links. And that was frustrating me and I was like, you know if I can, if I can fix this, I should.

Eli

Yeah, it's hard when you're embedded in your own work like that, though. I mean Trey edits the newsletter I write and there's a shit ton of typos.

Trey

Well also we record this podcast twice a month. And to find like, the right amount of topics that feel worth speaking about for more than, you know, five minutes can actually be kind of a challenge. It's like, oh, this again, like, you know.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah it's, um, I guess I've kind of developed my own algorithm and, and temperature check for what makes sense. What, what like the Emily brand is of a selection of stories. I've read plenty of stories every day that aren't a fit for the letter for one reason or another. But I don't think that's like a formula that works for me.

Eli

Yeah. And I was reading your my internet on Reddit. And I feel like out of every other kind of like person who writes a newsletter, you're a bit more secretive about maybe your your news diet. Is there, like, held kind of like the Coca Cola recipe? Or is it just because it's like, this is my secret sauce. And I just don't you know what I mean? Like, it's, proprietary information.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, it's a little bit of, it's a little bit of that. And it's a little bit of like, this thing's new, and I want it to last and I don't want to show everybody how to do it. Yeah, there are people who are probably much better writers than I am are much better editors are much better readers, and I need to I need to keep this thing going the way it is before I reveal how it happened.

Eli

I'm a proponent of putting up barriers and a little bit of gatekeeping I think it can go a really long way. I think we have put down the gates. And I don't want to say democratize too much, because sounds sounds too political. But I don't think everyone needs to know everything about what you're reading, where you're getting it from, who's, who's giving it to you, etc.

Trey

My hot take to you is like, not everything is for everyone. Which is to say that like, because of social media, and because of the way we've like consumed things like music, now you can get on Spotify, any song you want, at any time, or like any movies on any streaming service, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, you pay like a small fee. But people just have this idea or a sentiment that if I want the answer to something, I can Google it and immediately get it like, there's no waiting period, there's no friction, but you know, I'm sure you're kind of around our age, but like, growing up with the 90s, like, we lived through a period at some point where things were harder to get the answer, or you maybe would like abandoned something, because it was just like didn't come to you naturally. But now because of that instant gratification that I feel like so many people are used to through social media, there's just this expectation that like, I deserve everything exactly when I want it. Which kind of leads me to my question, too, which is like, not only are you kind of gatekeeping, I put that in quotes, like your sources are how this thing comes together. But it's also behind a paywall. And I'm just curious, like, what that decision was for you. And if you feel like strongly about it, or if it's like weird, or? Yeah, that's I like that. Because like you, you know, show that you have value in what you do. And it's like, valuable to others as well, that I think, you know, people don't quite get a lot of like, I think there's always a small but vocal faction that's like, How dare you charge X amount or whatever, but people are willing to pay for things that they value. And I'm wondering if like, you would agree with that?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah so, every reader whether you're paid or not, you you're getting at least 25% of the letter. And then the rest happens below the paywall. Um, there was a point last year what was probably or like six months ago, or was probably more 50/50 paid and unpaid letters. And I was getting a lot of feedback from my readers like, this is an essential tool to my day, like, this is how I feel smarter every day at work. This is how I feel more equipped, like this is a resource. You should people were saying like if you if you raise the price, people will pay it like and those who don't. That's okay. Um, and, you know, like, for people listening to this, if there's people who feel like they really need it, and they can't afford it, I usually just give them a subscription. Yeah, it's not like gonna change my life that much. But the short answer is because I can. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's, it's, it's also not an obscene price, in my opinion. What I am curious about though, is how these substack subscriptions will scale like last weekend, I was looking through the subscription and I paid for and it was getting pretty expensive. Yeah. So I am curious if they're eventually going to offer a bundle offer or if other people are going to go off and make their own Pucks and sort of create conglomerate's of different newsletters that are topically. Similar, but I do understand if people can't pay for it. And I'm sure there's plenty of people who get forwarded the letter from friends. But yeah, I agree. I think people will pay for what they want and what feels helpful to them.

Eli

All right. I want to shift. Well, actually, within that same my internet newsletter, you mentioned that you didn't like how they put the sticker over your camera at Frog club.

Emily Sundberg

I did not.

Eli

So pre-pod you mentioned you had some news, but I guess like what was that experience? Like?

Trey

Well, first there's a new restaurant?

Eli

Go off. Yeah, go for it.

Trey

There's a restaurant called Frog club in New York. And it is by the I think founder or one of the cofounders of horses, which was like the infamous restaurant that was you know, exposed for possibly maybe putting like cats in the food TLDR go read about it. Yeah, but either way, so this woman started frog club in New York. And I thought it was really interesting. First of all, like social launch. They did like a really cool throwback like video on the video is really fun. It's kind of like old 90s infomercial vibe. But either way, the you know, it's kind of like, if you guys know Keith McNally and his kind of group of restaurants and the, I guess like vibe you buy into you just by being a patron of one of them.

Emily Sundberg

Have either of you been there?

Trey

I have not.

Eli

No but I know a guy who did one of the quilts on the wall.

Emily Sundberg

I can't let you compare it to Keith's restaurant. because he has such he, like, the aesthetic of the whole place was so bad. Oh, my God, restaurants are beautiful. Yes, yeah. And like timeless, and you could put them in any city and you'd probably find people to go and spend money there. This place... Oh, no.

Eli

No go on.

Emily Sundberg

I'm so tired. I'm not tired talking about it. But I will tell you guys the advancement, like what's happened since. And just to quickly sum it up, you go to this place that it's not on Resy you need to email the secret email address, even get a reservation, you go in, they put stickers on your phone, so you can't take photos within the space. And then you walk in, and it is sort of an elevated rain forest cafe, psychedelic mural situation, and then old school tavern, deep booths. So they were like, Let's do something really classic, and then put this bizarre art all around it, that I will bet you all $100 that they will probably change it within a year. So that's whatever. I don't, I don't like people putting stickers on my phone, because I like being trusted that I'm going to be cool in a cool space. You know, like, if bleep like person walks in, I'm not going to take out my phone and like take selfies with them. And there were people in the room that we all know, and I wasn't gonna go up to them and be like, Hey, can we take a photo? Um, so that already was like, honestly, a really great way to go viral because everybody's talking about the stickers. But then I did take the sticker off and I did put photos in my newsletter and there has been in advance an advancement to the story, which is I'm probably not allowed there anymore. Are you upset about that? No, I think you know, if I'm the first person banned from frog club..

Trey

Kind of iconic.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, kinda iconic. Yeah. But also I, I think I'll be okay. Without going there.

Eli

I think it'd be okay, what they send you like a cease, did they serve you?

Emily Sundberg

I actually went twice which isn't very widely known. I went a second time. And people took photos that night and didn't get in trouble. So I think it was more about the substack at all. Yeah.

Eli

Wait, but what's the delivery method of this band? If you can divulge or not, you know, we can change subjects.

Emily Sundberg

I can't say I'll tell the mics go off. I'll show you.

Trey

How was the food though? Because like, I'm very curious.

Emily Sundberg

Okay. The food was okay.

Eli

Did you get the carrots?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, no, that's weird. I also thing with being served oysters outside of their shell. And they were serving like shot glasses of oyster. Just leave it in the shell, right?It's weird.

Eli

I'm not an oyster guy.

Trey

Like when you divorce from its context.

Emily Sundberg

And I got that the second time and I didn't love that. And then they also didn't have anything on the menu. Like the chef came over. And one of my friends was like, Do you have anything available on the menu? Like, can we order anything? Like, half the things were sold out?

Trey

Oh, that's a bad look.

Eli

What, what's your take on these kind of like forced logging off? Or like forced digital diet? Experiences? Because like, the what was it the row? Yeah. And I wonder how much of that comes from like the headline, how much of it comes from the fact that like, people just straight up don't know how to act anymore? Like it at least in the city, or like, I don't know, you were traveling. Anytime I go to the airport. I'm like, Holy shit, no one knows how to operate at all.

Trey

Still you get to the security part and people like, what do I do? Took off my belt?

Eli

Separate gripe, but like, Do you think that's we're gonna see more of that, like, no phones allowed of which I'm not necessarily against but I agree. It's like, some of us you know, know how to act type of thing.

Emily Sundberg

I don't know because on one side, I have friends who are kind of like scraping their Instagram, deleting Twitter. You know, probably I hear people are getting flip phones. I haven't seen one in the flesh yet. But um, he I hear people are getting flip phones. I'm sure people are becoming more conscious of their screen time with those reminders and stuff. But on the other side, I have a whole group of friends who are trying to become influencers this year and are constantly taking content and booking trips around the photos that they're going to take and looking at restaurant Instagrams before they go to restaurants, so they know what to order. They know what to take photos of. So they're I think that there's probably this sort of split going on. Like there's people who are conscious of I mean, the reason that people walk around with those portable phone chargers are on them is because they can't stay off their phone like they're using the phone more than it is designed to be used in a day. It's like an Elf bar.

Trey

Yeah, it's a truly addictive addictive like, I don't know.

Emily Sundberg

What do you think?

Eli

I kind of go I go both ways. Because I think part of it is just straight up because there's like a etiquette crisis a little bit that like, you go into any type of public space, whether it is like a restaurant, the movies, a sport event, a play, like you name it, where there's plus five people, I'd straight up thing people just kind of like there was mass phlebotomy during COVID. And people forget how to act. I think a lot of that is like, pulling out your phone. Like, I'm gonna watch YouTube shorts without headphones, like, and now

Emily Sundberg

At a Yankees game.

Eli

Yeah. And that like, yeah, that really gets me tight, especially because like, I'll go to an event and I like can't focus on the actual thing, I'll have to look at everyone around me or like I was at the US Open. It was like people just doing the most ludicrous stuff. So I kind of understand putting parameters around it. But at the same time, it's like some of us do know how to behave. But I mean, it doesn't really piss me off that much. I've never been a frog club so.

Trey

Yeah, I have a theory around this. Maybe a potential trend up and coming, we'll see. So because of people's like brazen behavior, and like unwillingness to behave properly in public settings, and because of our willingness to kind of try and label everything and own it and kind of make it into an aesthetic. I recently saw these two quotes in different publications from different people I'm going to read. The first is from Sean McGraw, who is the new designer at Alexander McQueen, who just debuted his new collection. And he said, when I look at pictures of McQueen show in the 90s, that girls look like people on the fringes, I'm into that idea of anti anti politeness. So there was like this kind of through line in a show about being anti polite, I guess you could say. And then No, I'm, stick with me. Sorry. And then separately in a Charlie XCX interview, she was talking about, like, I miss time when like, pop music was really volatile and crazy. Everyone's so worried about everything right now how they're perceived if this art they've created is gonna, like offend anybody. And it really limits creative output to think like that. So I'm just into this idea of lying all the time, being really truthful, but also lying effort. And I think I think we're going to enter this era of kind of anti politeness where people in culture are going to co opt this like, you know, brazen behavior by the proletariat or whatever you want to call them, and kind of like codify and make into an aesthetic that are like, you know, gets packaged up and sold back to us. That's my that's my take.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, that chart was that the interview in The Face? Yeah, that was a good interview. It wasn't good. And she was also saying that Dasha from Red Scare inspired her which is so specific and it feels so New York that one of the biggest pop artists at least in my world is pulling from her right board. And Dasha is like a bad girl online. Yeah, I don't know what that will look like for that to get packaged and sold back to us. I don't know if it means like constant bids from people who we're supposed to not expect bids from right but yeah, it's an interest theory.

Trey

Because like, well already, I don't know I'm not going to explain this whole like pop drama situation. But Camila Cabello who used to be in Fifth Harmony release or as a releasing this song called I like it or something and it sounds very similar to a Charlie XCX song. She promoted the song Charlie XCX fans were like you're stealing it, you're stealing it. And then Charlie XCX films like a kind of parody of the clip release that Camila Cabello released kind of like poking fun at her like also brazenly, which I think is this kind of like behavior anti politeness come to life, if you will. But I just I'm think we're gonna start to see it from people more, where it's like, people don't know how to act in public. Our icons or our you know, people in pop culture are going to start like mirroring that back to us. And in a way where it's like, own it, you know.

Emily Sundberg

Do you consider Kim's caption two days ago, like gonna go find Kate part of this?

Trey

I didn't see that.

Emily Sundberg

Kim Kardashian posted like on my way to go find Kate. And everyone was like, why are you saying that? Right?

Eli

I thought that was like, you know, when you explain a joke to your parents, and then they try and like

Emily Sundberg

They try to emulate it.

Eli

Yeah, I was like, This is so out of context. And not actually funny.

Trey

Yeah, I think the only way that could be like an anti politeness thing is if Kate is actually in a dire situation ie like a coma. A miscarriage. And then it would be like, Wow, she wasn't Yeah, but I don't think that Kim can really own that in the way that a Charlie XCX can or somebody who's like, already kind of more aggressive.

Emily Sundberg

Right, kind of polished.

Trey

Yeah. But um, yeah, I'm just I'm curious to kind of see this because I just think like For several years now we've predicted post COVID people coming back and we'd have this like roaring 20s moment and people will be partying hard in the streets and all this stuff and like, has kind of gone exactly the opposite, where people are like retreating into their homes. Everyone's lonelier than ever. The US is, like, dropped off the list of happiest countries, blah, blah, blah.

Eli

Why is that a shock?

Trey

I don't know. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? It's like, I feel like we're all retreating into ourselves.

Emily Sundberg

Nobody's drinking. Nobodys ike remembering like the joys of partying. That's why I'm kind of excited about Zyn kind of becoming a popular thing.

Eli

Say more. I agree, you know? Yeah.

Trey

Wait, what do you mean?

Eli

Well I don't I think the cause of like mass regulation of Zyn and the kind of like moral outrage of like, I can't believe my kid is getting getting exposed to this like, terrible product online. It's like okay, sure. Yes, there probably should be some some tighter guardrails. I guess about like how this shows up on social media platforms but like teenagers have been finding you know, shit to do whatever since before TikTok. Yeah, and like that doesn't happen in a vacuum like kids were smoking kids still smoke I also just don't think we should we should be like, heavily heavily regulating like cigarette substitute just from like a health standpoint. I think it's bad. But I agree the the sort of like vice element. I'm just like, why are we outraged about this?

Trey

Well, really?

Eli

They're a real problem.

Trey

What are you thinking about it?

Emily Sundberg

When I go out at all, like post a photo of like, Chanel lipstick with my Zyn and I get so many DM's from people being like, is this real? Are you kidding? Like, are like Zyn mafia, whatever. And it's this polarizing thing where if it was like, beer, or even a cigarette, nobody's gonna say anything?

Eli

Well, I think it's like it's been co opted by like the NELK boys and Tucker Carlson and it's like, anything they touch has become a third rail topic, like hard seltzer or whatever. Boycott Planet Fitness. Yeah. You know, I'm not packing a lip 24/7. But..

Trey

Have you been to dip into the Zyn?

Eli

No, I mean, I definitely didn't do like chewing tobacco or like actual pouches. Those are really gnarly, but I think those then it's like, it's discrete. Well, you don't spit you there's no like, okay, don't spit anything out.

Trey

Let me ask a real user. Do you actually do it?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah.

Trey

And why do you like it?

Emily Sundberg

Um, it's, it's like a rush. It like, keeps me on. I like caffeine. Like, I'm pretty. I you know, I get up really early.

Trey

Yeah. Let's see, that makes sense. To me. The discrete thing I'm like, okay, so is a tampon, like, what does mean?

Eli

No it's completely different. It's not like you could like have an, you're not going to have an Elf bar on the officer. It's like obnoxious but I don't want to spend I don't want to like smell your like, pineapple. Cool pineapple cloud.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, I was I was at a meeting with a like somewhat important CEO this morning and he had his Zyn on the table at the hotel that we were having a meeting at and he was just like, Do you want one like I think people the people who do it are kinda like and so what.

Eli

Yeah, yeah. Oh. Are you into like Hestia or any of them more like these are cigarettes for like, these are like good for you cigarettes, which I think is not actually what it is but.

Emily Sundberg

No, I respect the hustle but I don't think those guys are gonna make it.

Eli

No. They're so bad. Oh, they're really really bad.

Trey

You can't make a health well this kind of. No, this obviously designed for moral outrage energy drink brand that we found.

Eli

Oh, yeah, go on.

Trey

Which can I say the name on here?

Eli

Yeah, I've gone far enough already.

Trey

So there's a new actually it is it's like the name is bleeped out. It's called Lucky F**K but with the star.

Emily Sundberg

Stars and energy drinks.

Trey

So it says whether you're a grandma trying to stay awake at bingo a stay at home mom wrangling rowdy children or a busy career couple just trying to find some day and find some time in the day for our reinvigorating f**k. The ad is grounded in lucky f**K's core mission of being an energy drink made for everybody no matter what their day looks like. I think it's a healthy alternative to like a Red Bull?

Eli

It's from one of the founders of liquid death.

Emily Sundberg

They need to get a new copywriter.

Eli

I mean, yeah, that's straight from PR Newswire.

Emily Sundberg

The thing with disrupting the energy drink category is that five hour energy works and they're some of like the biggest industries in the country like truck drivers. People who work night shifts like they're they're drinking five hour energy because it works. It's cheap. It's everywhere they're spending time. Same thing with Red Bull. Like it works. It's cheap. It's where they're spending time and it's not that bad. And then when these new companies come in and they try to make Prime is a, I guess an exception, but a lot of these new companies, they don't make it like none of these people are making money because what what are you proposing that like one chemical is better than another?

Eli

Yeah, I mean, well, just to backtrack, are our IT department does run on Red Bull for sure. Yeah.

Trey

The thing that I find crazy is like I so I've fully bought into the prebiotic soda category, let's say. I truly felt like there was a white space there. You know, I think Kombucha is like, ass. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, with somebody with digestive issues. Let me drink a fun little drinky drink that will make my stomach like rejoice. But then so I got like, really into Olliepop, which is the best one about them. But then I so I'm from Canada. And so like, I get some headlines from Canada sometimes. And then Olliepop recently just launched in Canada and like all of the claims on the Canada and America wiped off like because of our regulations. They cannot advertise anything.

Emily Sundberg

You must have known that.

Trey

Yeah, sure. But like, you know, it's tastes healthier. Like, I feel like in the same way people buy Zyn I'm not immune to advertising. I might work in advertising. So like, in the same way, I was kind of shocked to be like, Oh, I knew I know it's not healthy. But I thought it was like drinking iced tea versus like a full fat coke. You know what I mean?

Eli

Full Fat full fat 2% pasteurized coke.

Emily Sundberg

I'm not into any of the new sodas. I just I think they're so annoying and it's very personal and it's not based on anything besides the fact that they just bother me but I also love Diet Coke like that's my that's my drink. Like that's gonna vote me in the grave. Do it, you know?

Eli

None of those claims are wrong?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, I thought through that from day one.

Trey

Well sure. That's not why I bought them I feel like I'm being put on. Well I signed back on the diet coke too let me just like their equivalent I suppose. I don't want to do that anymore. Well, no, I will because it goes really so this is my after discovering this I have not recently but sometimes I will. So embarrassing. I will indulge in like a whipped vodka like the whipped vodka like the gross bottom shelf brand and mix it with my Aldi pop like the orange one like creamsicle vodka like delicious like vanilla cream. Oh, you guys I'm telling you let me put you on.

Eli

If know if we have any listeners over at the Coca Cola Corporation.

Emily Sundberg

I'd be going for the diet sunkissed before that probably just because I don't like the surprise of a lot of those having like apple juice in them and it's like I don't want that right I want orange.

Trey

Or just real juice and general like..

Eli

Yeah, but so you're you're not into like the soda disruptors or the water disruptors. I agree they're equally annoying by just..

Emily Sundberg

Give me one I'll drink it but like I'm not spending money on those.

Eli

$8 For can.

Emily Sundberg

That's not even the problem because I'll spend dollars and other things but it's, they just don't speak to me as somebody who grew up drinking like Zevia and it was enough from the health food store like to hear. I don't know, there's something like just that just grossed me out.

Eli

What's Zevia?

Emily Sundberg

It's like the like if you go to your go back in time. 20 years to a health food store that they're like Zevia sweetened raspberry soda, orange soda, grape soda.

Trey

The Olliepop precursors.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, they're probably due for a rebrand.

Trey

Yeah. I'm curious like what categories that you are personally interested in? Or like what news are you like personally tracking that? Like you can write about all day?

Emily Sundberg

Yeah. So what are some recent ones I'm very interested in aesthetics. I think that the way that women in my life respond to like, plastic surgery and beauty and all these like walk in clinics is really fascinating. I'm also very interested in the business of IVF and egg freezing I've been hearing a lot of pitches come my way of like destination egg freezing places. So it's like easier on you if you can afford it. And then as you're on use, right like so instead of living in New York going to like doing your injections at home every day maybe feeling worse, maybe feeling okay depending on who you are. You can now go away somewhere, stay at a resort for seven days while you go through the process. I guess you're freezing your eggs overseas or somewhere else, but it's like a more comfortable experience and just like seeing how people are seeing how people are, like profiting on this already, very privileged experience is funny. Or not. It's kind of funny. It's just like glitched. But yeah, no, it should not. Um, and so I've been just, in general, I think, fam tech, like that whole industry seeing women who came up with traditional DTC startups, reaching an age where they're saying, like, Hey, I think something can be different about the way that I went through pregnancy or the way that I went through whatever like I had to use to hide where I go to Botox, and now you can walk in and get Botox, like, you get a manicure. It's crazy. So I just I'm keeping an eye on that, because I live in New York, and I'm so exposed to it all, but I'm curious how that's going to sort of franchise throughout the country. I'm still interested in CPG, even though I don't like Olliepop like, I'm curious about the whole packaged goods industry, celebrity brands that work celebrity brands that fail people's audacity to like enter markets that make no sense for them, like seeing companies, overfunded. I see a lot of fundraising decks and I'm astounded by how much money people think is necessary to launch, you know, a ketchup up brand or whatever. It's crazy.

Trey

Is it because of like the they have to scale right away? Or like, why did they need so much money at the outset?

Emily Sundberg

Probably because they think they need to hire certain people. And like, or, I really don't know, I've worked for venture backed brands that have over raised and it never really ends well.

Eli

They need their wellness officer.

Emily Sundberg

Yeah, or they want to give themselves a big paycheck.

Trey

I mean, sure, like, don't we all.

Eli

We need to open space floor plan. Yeah, in Unit laundry.

Trey

It's true. It's true.

Emily Sundberg

What other areas I mean, beauty and fragrance, which I mentioned earlier.

Trey

Well, I'm curious. Okay, so re fragrance and business side of fragrance like, because I think it's objectively you can say fragrance has is a bubble maybe? I don't know. Maybe that's?

Emily Sundberg

I think it's a bubble. I think it's we're probably within a few months of it peaking.

Trey

Oh months. Okay.

Emily Sundberg

Do you think weeks?

Trey

No, no, I think longer I think longer. Well, I just like I see a lot of fragrance news about like Etro just signed with Cody to develop their fragrances and like Balm and Beauty has to launch this year. And like, you know, Drees just I mean, that's kind of I guess old now.

Emily Sundberg

Drees packaging is so nice.

Trey

So nice. I really like my Drees, perfume.

Emily Sundberg

Like candy. But okay, so here's the thing about fragrance. It's relatively inexpensive to produce because it's alcohol oils, like a few other things. And then what you're really putting money into is the packaging the story, the world that you're building around it, like I was, I was DS and Durga got acquired recently. And in the press release, they were saying we want you to think about your fragrance the same way you do your favorite hotel or your favorite destination and it's it really is a highly emotional experience that can evoke a lot of memories or feelings. So I understand why the more people learn about it, the more they want to immerse themselves into like the world of fragrance. But unlike lip liner, or other beauty products that fit in like a nice little bag like it starts to take up space in your house. So I am curious how many of these things people will start to have around themselves before they start building like a tiny cabinet just for all their fragrence.

Trey

Yeah and like my POV is an I don't think this is really that well known by consumers but like the fragrance industry is like a giant iceberg where the the amount that you see or is available to you as a consumer, for the most part is made by like two or three different gigantic fragrance conglomerates that make the fragrances for you know, the Dior's, the Louis Vuitton the like blah blah blah, name any brand that you see in a store all the way down to like the Ariana Grande cloud or the like Victoria's Secret whatever there's like, I don't know, I would I don't know the number but like maybe there's like 20 perfumers that have made like, the 300 like plus fragrances that are on shelves. Yeah. And then there's like this huge, deeper iceberg like when you get into it and I'm kind of glad that TikTok exists for this reason to expose people to like the 1000s of independent brands that have launched especially just like in the last five years that are making really interesting weird smells like I just saw that. Yesterday in the New York Times Magazine or style section, I think like Hilda Soliani or whatever her name was profiled this like wacky kind of Italian woman who makes like, cacio e pepe fragrance and oyster smell and stuff.

Eli

Enough of these decontextualized oysters.

Trey

But, um, and like, you know, that is maybe for like a real frag head who's kind of

Emily Sundberg

I mean, the industry that I can close this compared to is wine, right? Like, there are people who could drink a $10 glass of wine and a $200 glass of wine, and probably probably not tell the difference. There are people who are like that. And then there are people who are in between who are able to find each note and appreciate it and, you know, think about where, where it's coming from, and who's making it and the soil that it's grown in, and the way that it was distilled or whatever. And I also think it uses a similar part of your head as wine. I mean, when I left one of my classes once I drink a Diet Coke, and I was able to because I had just been around some of the ingredients that are in Diet Coke, because the fragrance and the flavor industries are also very close.

Trey

Yeah, really just wild, which is like the vape cloud. you're smelling actually.

Emily Sundberg

I mean, some of the most hired people who work for Chanel are also making flavors for Hennessy, like, which is cool, including my professor from that class. But I was able to guess, almost every artificial flavor in the diet coke. And then I looked it up and it was like clove Yeah, lemon. Yeah. And and that was really, yeah. It just uses a different part of your sensory system that you're not necessarily always thinking about.

Eli

Well, we've covered a wide range of topics. Destination egg freezing, Zyns, unshelled oysters. Just to close out where can our listeners whether they are the Coca Cola or Boeing Corporation, find you and your newsletter.

Emily Sundberg

Emilysundberg.substack.com. My letters called Feed Me and @EmilySunberg on Instagram.

Eli

Cool. Thank you so much for joining us.

Emily Sundberg

Thanks, guys.

Trey

Thank you.

Eli

Yo, thanks for tuning in. Stay up to date with all things Day One FM by subscribing to our page on Spotify, following us on Instagram @d1a and staying up to date with the latest trends and insights on d1a.com/perspective.