Eli

Day One FM, it is a smoky day in New York thanks to our neighbors in the north. Very hazy tasting notes of burnt oak, I think.

Clara

Burning oak.

Eli

Yeah, we just barely made it into the office today. But we had to and the reason we had to is because it's a special day in Day One FM history. We're recording live from our New York studio. Our producer is in the room with us, actually monumental so a big shout out to Cole, Jared, Jacques, the whole Ops team for putting this together. I feel like the mics may make us sound smarter. I feel that way. But...

Trey

The presence.

Clara

I feel so much more grounded. I would say, yeah.

Eli

Anyway, we do again, have an agenda today. Believe it or not, we're not just rambling here. So three things, three things we're going to discuss today. The first is the fallout from Hannah, Gatsby's it's Pablo-matic exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum. Then we're going to talk on the quote coming pro smoking discourse, no pun intended. And then finally, lots of news coming out of the cable news industry. We're gonna talk Chris Licht some updates there. So to kick it off, Clara, I know you have some strong opinions on this first, what is Pablo-matic and what's problematic about it? Fill us in, please.

Clara

I'm going to try to do this as quickly and clearly as possible.

Trey

Please, let's fast forward to this part.

Clara

But in any case, so are you guys familiar at all with Hannah Gadsby?

Trey

Unfortunately.

Clara

Yeah, did you watch the special?

Trey

Absolutely not.

Clara

Yeah I did not honestly, I didn't really know that much of who she was prior to this. But basically, she's an Australian stand up comedian. And I think within the Netflix special, which did come out a couple of years ago, or maybe one year ago, she has this bit about Pablo Picasso and how he's problematic. One thing leads to another she's curated this exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum. It's currently one called Pablo Matic which basically brings together some of Pablo Picasso's work with work by female artists with these kinds of very like quippy artist statements written I think, by her and her team that go up next to all of the work and a lot of the criticism that's come out about it both from like art critics, and from, you know, the New York pundits at large is basically just talking about how the show itself is kind of like an amalgamation of like digital culture, kind of gone awry, like a very specific type of, you know, discourse that actually ends up doing more to tarnish the reputations of the female artists who are included in the exhibition, then actually, you know, like, make any type of interesting point about, you know, maybe some of Pablo Picasso's biography and like aspects of his life that were troubling. And it just seems to be the type of thing that's very much like made to be memed, made to be consumed, and there's tweets that are funnier than I am to this effect. But I'm curious, either of you, to the extent that you've like paid attention at all to this, because I know like Colleen and Elise, some other members on our team and I have been chatting about it pretty consistently.

Trey

I just thought it was, I don't pay attention to art news, per se. And I saw at least and read at least two reviews of the Brooklyn Museum show that were completely eviscerating her, essentially, and wondering how these two curators who I guess helped co-curate it with her, basically allowed her to like run free through.

Eli

Wasn't it also funded by the Sacklers?

Clara

in the feminist or maybe it's not called feminists but it's in the such and such Sackler women's art wing, which is already you know, problematic.

Trey

Interesting. I just thought it was so funny. There was the audio guide, I guess she nicknames Pablo Picasso, PP. And there's a lot of like, crude PP jokes in the audio guide, which I think should get everyone, you know, insight into Hannah, Gatsby's style of humor.

Clara

Yeah. And I was actually struggling to describe it because Eli and I did a bit of a test run of the podcast yesterday. And I don't know quite what to call it, but it gives me kind of like a, I don't know, like Twitter. Like, I don't know, how would you describe it?

Eli

A lot of the criticism. Well, doesn't stem from this piece. But the one article that has been kind of circulated online outside of the Twitter discourse is from the New York Times art critic Jason Farrago, I might not be pronouncing that correctly, but he likens it to social justice themed pop culture. So, I mean, is that kind of in line with what you're getting at?

Clara

Yeah, I mean, I think so to the extent that...

Eli

Now this sounds.... sorry. And I don't want this to sound like come across sounding like a daily wire podcast, but it's kind of like more and more in the performative elements than, you know, actually kind of speaking to any type of female Cubis or something along those lines, right?

Clara

Yeah. Well, basically, and like, I think his point a little bit later is like, there's so much to actually engage with on Pablo Picasso. And also important to note, I think this year is like an important anniversary. 50th, Okay, yeah. So there's been like, yeah, it's tough and important anniversary. But anyways, um, there's been so like, The New York Times actually did like a really thoughtful piece where like, 10 artists weigh in on his legacy, and, you know, artists from very diverse backgrounds in terms of like art practice, but also sort of identity. And there is a lot to like, very meaningfully engage with and critique. But I think his point about sort of, like the social justice theme is that it doesn't actually do any of those things. Like it's very performative, this Pablo-matic show, right? But in a way that's kind of like, I don't know, it's made to be a gif or it's made to be sort of just like a photo that you like, add to your story of like, Oh, haha, isn't this like PP jokes so funny. But it's like, when you bring that type of thing to an art world context, it's like maybe it flies on Netflix and like, oh, like this gets picked up by you know, the right type of person with the right like armor. Exactly.

Eli

It's the smoke inhalation.

Trey

I want to read one of the quotes because Hanna inserts herself into the show by I guess blowing up large quotes from her all over the exhibition. And again, disclaimer, I've not seen it, but one of them. There is Picasso print of a nude woman caressing a sculpture of a naked chiseled man. And the accompanying text from Hannah Gadsby goes, "Don't you hate it when you look like you belong in a Dickens novel, but end up in a mosh pit at Burning Man? #MeToo"

Clara

Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying is like, you don't and it's again, I don't want to be put in the position also of like, defending Pablo Picasso against criticism. But I think like to your point, or at least like that example. It's like, You're making fun of people who do try to have I don't know, meaningful conversations. And I think that that's something that also comes up in this New York Times piece is that like, there actually are a female artists who have done really cool work that's like, inspired or like whatever, by Picasso. And to kind of like throw them all in this gallery with him with these like, sort of fridge magnet jokes, devalues their and they are in a more vulnerable position, right?

Trey

Right, it frame is agreeing with her communication, like style, I guess against Picasso? I don't know. Yeah, I would be annoyed if my podcast words were taken out of context and use for someone else's agenda. Just a note to our producer

Clara

But yeah, I mean, I guess like on a closing note on this conversational thing, I guess, I'm curious on both of your takes on one of the points from the New York Times piece is about, you know, when digital culture meets, you know, IRL culture. But I think like more in this case, like when digital culture meets, you know, institutions and concepts that are like a little bit more complicated than a tweet, and how these types of things can go wrong. I feel like in terms of our work, and what we do is kind of what I was thinking about, like, I know, like, I'm gonna maybe pronounce this brand name wrong, but like Shishido is partnering with the MET this year to try and like, bring more young people to the galleries and like, I know that a lot of museums, wait is it not Shiseido?

Eli

Are you sure that's not?

Trey

Shiseido

Clara

Shiseido. Oh, my God, well, so Shiseido. But I am curious, like, as museums try to maybe either resonate with a younger audience or reach a different audience, like, the good, the bad and the ugly of this, I feel like this is very much the ugly, but just to the extent that that's on either of your minds.

Trey

Well, yeah, I just think whenever you are trying to make some kind of statement that resonates with an audience, if you don't, if you insert yourself into that conversation, or try to make light of it or add an extra layer on to it, the actual message gets lost and when the like the subject is so complex, such as this case, you know, it just there's you have to peel back so many layers. So I think it's always better to just say your message and kind of shrink away into the background to let that message come across. But instead, Hannah Gadsby can't help but like be the main character. So unfortunately, we are for better or for worse stuck with her fridge maintenance probably sold in the Brooklyn Museum shop on the way out.

Clara

Tragic.

Eli

Yeah. All right. Good thoughts.

Clara

Thanks Eli.

Eli

I know I was you know, at first a little..

Clara

We should have an Eli stamp of approval on thoughts, sound approved, approved by Eli.

Eli

You know, I was at first a little hesitant, then I spent some time reading and you know, fell in line.

Clara

Fell in line. Yeah, it's an interesting story.

Eli

Yeah. All right. Well, on the theme of smoky skies, I want to talk about a recent substack piece from Max Read. Is it Max Read or Max Read?

Trey

I think it's up for debate.

Eli

Okay. could go either way. Who knows? Titled: The Pro Smoking Discourse. And first a disclaimer, this is not medical advice. Day One FM is in no way shape or form aimed to endorse or promote smoking tobacco or any nicotine products for that matter. But kind of the groundwork for this piece is sparked—no pun intended—by a recent pop video of Gen Z's fav Jenna Ortega ripping a heater. Have you guys seen this video? Yeah.

Clara

But she's like talking to someone outside of like a building or something.

Eli

Yeah. And this of course, you know, kicked off a debate about you know, the pros and cons, whether or not it's good or bad that she smokes. And, and obviously that's obviously bad, but overwhelmingly, or potentially overwhelming, at least the the tweets that did the most numbers or the you know, posts that did the most numbers were kind of overwhelmingly of the pro at least, you know, kind of sh**t-posting pro-variety. I shouldn't know that. I think I saw a piece about Jenna Ortega's mom did like a public PSA.

Trey

So after Jenna Ortega famously known for her role in "Wednesday," the Netflix series, Jenna's mom posted on her Instagram story all these hilarious like screenshots of articles that say like that smoking helps you relax. No smoking does not help you relax, cigarette stench. Quitting gets rid of the lingering effects of tobacco on your breath. And all the people are like reposting and saying Latina moms are ruthless AF. So I think that's kind of funny. A mother is always a mother. She never stops worrying about her children. Not only Natalie Ortega.

Eli

Listen, I mean, my mom rightly so would be doing the exact same, although I don't know if she she can download a PDF. If you're listening to this, I'm sorry, mom. But getting the green TikTok green screen to work would take a long time. Anyway, the crossing piece, the crux, excuse me, of his piece hinges on four main points: One, and this is you know, not him necessarily advocating just him what he's kind of seeing in the landscape one, nicotine as a creative and intellectual stimulant in an age of, quote, mid cultural production. I think what he's talking about here is mid cultural production, obviously, kind of, you know, maybe perhaps the dominance of Marvel Cinematic Universe of reboots of remakes, there's kind of a lack of original ideas and kind of mid content proliferating across TikTok or social platforms as a whole. And then he he ties us back to a bunch of other kind of authors and cultural commentators who have historically made this week argument if we're going to be honest, Tucker Carlson, I should add has had some similar commentary on this but no one's gonna listen to that monster.

Clara

What is the take?

Eli

What is the Tucker take?

Clara

Or no what is the take that Tucker makes and this guy makes?

Eli

The take that Tucker makes and that other authors have made? I'm gonna have to, we'll put in the show notes is that nicotine is like a creative stimulant and enhancer it's kind of like, write on wine and edit on coffee type of thing.

Trey

Are you calling it a wonder drug?

Eli

No, but historically, some would say, some would say, the next is like the the social activity involved. So smoking is like a social, you know, bringing people together, you can't really do it behind the screen or vaping is even in the privacy of our own homes.

Trey

Right, write the deck,

Clara

Just like in the stairwell like...

Eli

Well, yeah, you know, and then that speaking of Elf Bar, dare I say there's a nostalgic element here, some would say?

Trey

Yeah, I've seen you know, anecdotally smoking coming back a lot starting with the New York Times article last year.

Eli

But I appreciated this piece because on the face of it, it's something that I feel like you would see maybe in like a Times style headline and be like what is this like? This is another like, Americans are obsessed with Europe core this summer like something that just seems like such a broken brained take and like, there are all these kinds of trends now that exists in vacuums, like we've talked about Clara, whatever string cheese girl is tomato girl, kind of like damp lifestyle and..

Trey

Soft hiking or what is it soft walking, soft hiking?

Eli

I think it's soft hiking when it's just walking.

Clara

Yeah, Weird Girl Walks.

Eli

Yeah.

Trey

But there's so there's many examples. There's the New York Times article, there's this Max Read article, there's the rise of Hestia. There's the, you know, what else? Podcasters smoking?

Eli

I mean, yeah, I guess what I'm trying to say is that as kind of outlandish as it seems on the face of it, I appreciate that it was backed up by historical context and kind of a dive into the who, and the what, and the tensions of it all, which is like, kind of the, the like DNA or like what you need to kind of say that this is, quote happening in culture versus just like, wheeling it into thin air based off of like, a few Tik Toks, if that makes sense.

Clara

Well, I guess other questions like, do you guys I guess, A. feel that cigarettes are back in terms of they were at boiling point gone? And B. like, what do you think the reason is? Like, do you agree with the Xax reasons? Or do you have your own?

Trey

I, my theory is that they sorry, I was really smoky today. My theory is that they are back. But only among a certain demographic, I really do think that like, there is a weird millennial Gen Z cut off when it comes to smoking, I don't really know a whole lot of millennials who smoke. And I do know a lot of Gen Z, people who either vape or are trying to quit vaping and maybe have returned to traditional smoking. I also wanted to mention recently in Canada, they're branding cigarettes individually with anti smoking lingo, basically, that's printed on each individual cigarette to kind of dissuade people from smoking, which ironically, kind of backfired and was sort of memes on social media as being like, they use this cool font, and it's making cigarettes even look more cool to smoke. So I think that a lot of kind of things are rising to the surface in terms of the smoking discourse, but I do think that like, they're, I don't know, this is a ok this is a crazy theory, perhaps, but we are missing as a culture, our water cooler moment, you know, there's no real reason now, as like, Gen Z is clearly apparently sober as a generation to go outside to meet people and interact in non awkward ways without pulling out your cell phone. And as we know, I think, you know, this is like sweeping statements, but Gen Z is trying to get away more from social media and cellphone use, and trying to find ways to interact with each other, that isn't from behind the screen. So I think that that action of smoking or taking up cigarettes naturally lends itself to making new friends you know, I think there's plenty of evidence for how many new friends you make in the you know, outdoor smoking area. So yeah, I think that's my theory.

Clara

I think that's interesting that like, the sort of cigarettes as your door to a third space, you know, in a liminal space, but I think like you know, we've talked about it even with like the Diet Coke break, like I guess that the trade take on that was that like, oh, Diet Coke breaks, or the new Gen Z smoke break, where it was when you read these articles came out, but

Trey

can you explain that again, just because yeah, we might have missed it.

Clara

So hashtag Diet Coke break was like a TikTok trend, basically, where it was like, people being like, me and my bestie like when I slack her, like, Oh, do you want a Diet Coke, and then some people would sort of like, follow, like, get ready with us to go leave the office to grab a Diet Coke. And I think there's a lot that you can kind of take away from that both like Gen Z is returning to the office and like, how are they whatever sort of contending with that like taking like you're saying, like finding these spaces to chat with people like what is the watercooler conversation? Where does it happen for Gen Z, but I think you're also right, Trey it and that like, maybe there is kind of a part of cigarette smoking that gives you the sense of like community or like, if I feel awkward here at this party, I can always just like, go outside and smoke a cigarette and even if I do it by myself, it doesn't look weird. You know what I mean?

Trey

Wait, I just found this article.

Clara

Oh no.

Trey

So new UMass Chen Study finds smoking rates increased during the pandemic looks at related stresses. So essentially, a study led by Rajni S, I'm not going to try and say his name PhD found that the early months of the COVID 19 pandemic saw a net increase in smoking rates among a group of people who had previously participated in a study to quit smoking.

Eli

Interesting.

Trey

So they've taken smoking back up, probably due to all the related stresses from the pandemic.

Eli

I mean, I think the third space he's is interesting. And again, Day One FM is in no way shape or form condoning the ingestion of nicotine products. However, folks but I do you think I do think the third space to kind of social aspect of it is interesting. I think that the like contrarian take is always I feel like a lot of the times the popular take these days, somewhat, there's a big kind of anti expert anti science movement happening, at least on some fringe corners online and like the new masculine role models such as kind of Andrew Tate, you have the kind of these like, alt weirdos, I guess I would describe them as who, you know, would kind of embrace this viewpoint on something that has, as we all know, deadly.

Clara

But I guess it's interesting, because like, I agree with you, like, I'm sure like maybe Andrew Tate would be pro but then like the Red Scare girlies are pro, you know what I mean?

Eli

They fall one way into the other in that, there's a Venn diagram where they coexist.

Clara

I guess my point, though, overall, and like, what I think is interesting with them is that I don't think that cigarettes are like part of any particular scene, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think that like, if you were to go outside and like, see somebody smoking a cigarette, like a Gen Z person, it doesn't necessarily signal like, oh, that person is in this XYZ thing.

Eli

Maybe just because we work right across them FIT.

Clara

But I guess I'm saying but like fit themselves are not akin to Andrew Tate followers. You know what I mean? Like, I think that to Trey's point, like I think this was a pretty broad cultural moment where a bunch of people found themselves like, at home worried, stressed whatever, either took up smoking then or at least imbued them with enough like live everyday like it's a class that they like, picked up cigarettes because like, why not? And it looks cool, which is like Max Read brings that up to like, cigarettes, I think are unfortunately it's like they are eating a terrible guy like it's hot. You know?

Eli

Well I think it's less about like everyone who follows Andrew Tate is like picking up a pack of Marlboro hundreds. It's more of like, this is a person who espouses views that run flagrantly contrary to kind of the mainstream narrative around certain products and ideals. And it is perhaps a stretch to say that, therefore. But I think you know, that is an important component of the article of the piece.

Trey

There's also like an underlying current of, you know, over decades of Hollywood films that have romanticized smoking and like the flick of a lighter and the initial whatever you call it, wheeze? I don't know. Versus like

Clara

The crackle

Trey

Yeah. Versus like the absolute, you know, lameness of how vaping looks and people sucking on fake USB sticks and giant like tube things that, ya know, that raspberry cloud of smoke comes and attacks you when you walk behind them.

Eli

Last point on this,

Trey

Last wheeze.

Eli

There was an interesting piece, I gotta put this out. There is an interesting piece in Vox, a couple weeks ago about the like how fandom and fan culture got very puritan in nature and how there's a lot of people, particularly in younger, core, younger, younger sections and corners of the internet and kind of fan sites and chat boards, etc, who go around kind of policing certain behavior or, you know, somewhat allergic to seeing sex on screen or something and kind of equate that with potential real world harm. So I think there's a there's a, an aversion to this kind of safetyism that I think a lot of folks feel is part of their everyday experience online.

Clara

I also think though, and I'm curious how you guys feel like we've talked a little bit about like Vice as a category, like the return to Vice and I think to your point to about fandom I think like certain forms of entertainment have become super sanitized. Like yeah, there was that piece like everyone's hot and no ones horny. I don't know if you guys read it, but it's basically it's about like Marvel movies and like, on screen romance in general. And I think like Terry Nguyen from Dirt had body heat on the list is like one of her like movies to watch. But basically talking about how, like, there is a sense that like, culture has been so sanitized, I think even like with something like The Idol, like, it's like, kind of very graphic, but it's devoid of any real sense of like, romance or like true interest. You know what I mean? And so I think, like...

Eli

Pendulum swung too far on the other direction.

Clara

Yeah, we're, I'm curious to see like, and, you know, maybe this is a discourse for some time soon, but just like, where the cigarette stuff factors in with other shifts that I hope do sort of happen culturally, in terms of The vibe shift. Taking us out of this mid period and into something more like exciting well.

Trey

Well it's not sparking any creativity, I can guarntee.

Clara

Yeah no, it's not. At least so far.

Eli

All right. Moving on. When I was writing my show notes, Chris Licht was the CEO of CNN. And as I opened my computer this morning to finish them, he was not, I don't know if you guys have...

Clara Malley

Sunrise, sunset.

Eli

I don't know if you guys have been closely following the story at all.

Trey

All their hopes are pinned now on Caitlin Connell.

Eli

Okay, so there's a couple of different components, I will say that this is happening in the backdrop of a fairly turbulent and tumultuous time in cable news, there's a lot of big names who have left or been fired from their respective channels, or companies, Tucker Carlson and Don Lemon, which was a product of Chris Licht, you know, tenure at CNN. But there was a recent piece in The Atlantic, it was more so a dissertation, one could say from Tim Alberta, on Chris Licht, and he was granted, really intimate access to the day to day the ins and outs of Lichts life, both outside of the office and inside the office. He had Sweet Green with him. Or wonder what his order was? What do you think?

Trey

Oh, it didn't say in the piece?

Eli

No, it didn't say in the piece.

Clara

I feel like he doesn't get worn. I feel like he's like a kale Caesar guy.

Trey

Journalistic oversight.

Eli

All right. Well, you don't even know the guy.

Clara

I mean, like, calorie deficit?

Eli

I don't think so. Anyway, so he, you know, kind of shadowed him as he did is daily trainings and workouts, he went to dinners with him, he had breakfast with him, etc. And I think that he was granted all of this access in the hopes that, you know, I don't think it was it's the Atlantic, I don't think it's going to be a fluff piece. But it would be, you know, talk about CNN and the work the, quote, great work that they're doing, potentially, I don't know. And in the end, you know, it's fairly clear and obvious early on that. He is actually just a third Chris Licht. Like he kind of took a bat to the entire culture of the news. behemoth, the business at large. I don't know. I know. I just rambled for a bit. But have you guys kind of read anything? Or?

Trey

Yeah, I was reading a lot of it. And I thought it was interesting that he came from previously the Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

Eli

Yeah.

Trey

And obviously had previous previous success, I think at CBS Morning Show. So it was big kind of agenda at CNN was to create a morning show, which I think was basically his main downfall because nobody was watching that.

Eli

Yeah, I think he didn't. I mean, there was a lot. I think he is a guy who came from like a production background and didn't necessarily have like the business chops. But even like his creative decisions on the production side kind of flopped a bit. But yeah, the morning show was a flop, they didn't really have a lead anchor, per se. And I think he butted heads with Don Lemon. Don Lemon was eventually fired at CNN. But I just think it comes at an interesting time. And the whole news business as a whole or the cable news, at least is kind of going through a bit of an identity crisis.

Trey

Yeah.

Eli

And you know, trying to think of nonlinear future and like, where do you go for digital? Where do you go for social? Apparently, digital only makes up like 10% of CNN ad spend. Just like you can't survive on cable news alone. I feel like now.

Trey

Well, yeah, it just kind of marks or maybe it's like a paragon of this whole movement towards nonpartisan news and being more in the center. I think all news organizations historically want to appeal to a broad base of people regardless of what your political beliefs are. And it's interesting, we've seen that with the messenger and the whole launch or rollout of that, kind of trying to cater more to this non partisan audience of that exists. And same with Semaphore and a lot of other outlets that have kind of popped up in the past couple of months. And I think there is this big desire, especially for while those on the left and the right probably to read news that doesn't feel like tinged with opinion, or, you know, so one sided, but at the same point, I think that like, everyone is already feeling so divisive, that every little thing can be like triggering, I think. And so nonpartisan news just doesn't really work. Like you have to follow the audience.

Clara

Yeah, well and I'm curious, too. And I mean, this isn't an expert opinion. But like,

Trey

What?

Clara

Crazy I know, secret. Because I mean, I don't know, I have not been following the CNN thing super religiously. But I do think it's interesting to your point, Trey that, like you have cable news happening, or this crisis happening at the same time, as you have like a digital news crisis happening at the same time that you have Tucker Carlson, like, going on Twitter with his show, and like getting this massive audience, you know, but I do think you're totally correct in that, like, from a digital standpoint, I guess, we've been seeing a lot of like, newer models that are sort of like more quote, unquote, objective, more, quote, unquote, middle of the road. But I think there's like two questions on one side of like, is there a world that people are sort of tuning in to cable news? And if so, what's drawing them there? And I think it's interesting, like looking at, you know, Tucker Carlson. And I know, like Don Lemon is no longer there. But just like, in contrast to say, the Drew Barrymore show, you know what I mean? Like, she just got this cover talking about how she like, reinvigorated daytime, but I think TV is so personality driven. And like, I just feel like recently, TV channels that I've seen, kind of have yet to bring up like, what that next generation of TV hosts, you know what I mean? Like, it feels like a talent deficit in the same way that like, that article that I was referencing, like, whatever that was a few weeks back was saying about Hollywood of the inability of major studios to like, create their new blockbuster stars, like CNN has not produced that Fox lost that, who's, I guess Rachel Maddow is still like,

Eli

I don't even know if she's still on.

Clara

Maybe she's not, you know, but like, there isn't that type of star power, you know, that I don't see.

Trey

I think that all brands, regardless of whether you're a news brand, or a digital media brand, or just a other kind of brand, needs to figure out how to leverage parasocial relationships to get and keep an audience and harvest like a community and grow a community. Because regardless of like, whether it is, you know, traditional media or news channel, and this is maybe a crazy idea, but any you know, CNN execs are listening out there, if you wanted, for example, a younger audience who you knew all followed a specific person on Tik Tok, who had a very, you know, engaging magnetic personality, what's to stop you from kind of cultivating them into a star and platforming them and bringing that audience along with them. I know that it probably sounds crazy, because like, you know, why give a job to somebody who's just on Tik Tok or something. But like, you already have a highly engaged audience, and, you know, cult fan base. And I think if you made them into these big stars on traditional media channels, their audience would also revel and celebrate in that and be like, wow, this person I followed has made it to like the upper echelons of culture now. So in that sense, I think that like all these execs don't understand that creating that parasocial relationship is so important to winning over your audience.

Clara

Yeah, and I feel like maybe we've spoken about this as well before but it comes also in in terms of like investment and building like you're saying, like taking someone who maybe is too small right now and turning them into something like changing how you mine for talent like you're not looking to Jay schools, right where you're like looking at people who are already on Tik Tok breaking down news, the way that Gen Z cares about and listens to and shaping that into something that you can like franchise for TV. I just haven't seen it done successfully. Actually, the youngest person that I've seen on television is the scroll that they have doing. Like the halftime show for the Washington Capitals. You are getting like younger sports correspondents.

Eli

Sport is the only reason that cable TV still exists. Pretty much that people are tuning in to live TV. And final point on this. It's like, I think part of Chris Lichts downfall and potentially for the future kind of news execs is that there's doesn't seem to be a vision for the future like built around kind of what you're saying Trey building parasocial relationships like looking to social etc. And like doing things and kind of a, a platform first way but Gen Z and younger generations aren't tuning in to like primetime news, right? There's they're scrolling and coming across whatever is on their feed that's either algorithmically served to them or from someone that they're following. So I think just like, again, kind of building trust and building communities on those specific platforms with those individuals because I think what is news is amorphous and no one really knows and I think trust is kind of built between individuals first kind of these like larger institutions.

Trey

I believe the children of our future.

Eli

Wow. Well, wow, well, that was definitely an interesting first show in the studio. So I appreciate you all being being here today.

Clara

Wow thank you. Gratitude for both of you as well.

Eli

Without further ado, like, subscribe, wouldn't be without further ado. Anyway, play us out Jacques.

Clara

It's like our sitcom transition.

Trey

Do the New York twist.

Eli

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