Eli

Ok, did everyone get what they wanted from the Chloe Sevigny closet sale?

Trey

You mean major FOMO?

Eli

Yeah, the Sale of the Century.

Trey

Got my major FOMO. Yeah, no, I didn't make it I'm afraid.

Eli

You sound so disappointed.

Clara

Devastating.

Trey

Yeah.

Eli

Well anyway, Day One FM. It's a sunny yet, chilly May afternoon, although it's morning for Clara. I think it might be our first bicoastal pod

Clara

Crack of dawn.

Eli

Yeah chiming in from a live lime scooter.

Clara

Not far off.

Eli

But anyway, lots to unpack. In today's episode, we're not going to go down the AI rabbit hole. I was actually reading that according to Daniel Eck, who's the Spotify CEO. The number of daily podcast episodes about AI have soared 500% in the last 30 days, or I guess this would be like 34 days. And ours won't be one of them. Although maybe at some point. But anyway, today on the pod, we're gonna dive into a quick hot take on Quibi. But you didn't have that one on your bingo card. We'll talk about Vices bankruptcy, and in the words of Kyle Chayka "The stupefying success of the Super Mario Bros movie", although Trey, we were talking earlier, and I know you have some searing hot takes

Trey

Oh, yeah, I'll be jumping out of my Mario Bros. pipe on that one later on in the pod.

Eli

Yeah, can you speak in the accent?

Trey

We need some sound effects.

Eli

Alright, but diving into my quick Quibi take. And it might take me a little bit to get there. But I'll try and keep it quick.

Trey

Wait before your take what what is Quibi? what was Quibi? For those of us who...

Eli

I know it seems like a lifetime ago, I was gonna get to it, but we'll just kick it off right now. But Quibi, for those who don't remember, stands for quick bites. And it was a platform that was rolled out early 2020, pre COVID era, and its plan was to offer a short form video segments. So there'll be 10 Minutes or Less designed for small screens, AKA your phone when you were commuting. And a lot of their technology for their pitch hinged on a specific technology that allowed for a seamless kind of switch between a vertical and horizontal viewing. So a lot of the shows were like, oh, okay, now like switch your phone to horizontal and a lot of the programming would mirror that. But its debut lineup consisted of more than 40 shows. The platform was supposed, this is from a New York Times article, March 6 2020. So really going back in time. The platform was supposed to be home to about 8500 quick bites of content, around 175 new shows, 35 of these shows would be movies and chapters 120 would be unscripted reality TV shows or documentaries. And the rest of the news and lifestyle pieces are what they call daily essentials. Some of these shows were super pricey like the cost of an early Game of Thrones episode. The like movies that were broken up into chapters allegedly, or apparently costs almost seven and a half million to make. The mid tier programs would run at about 20k to 50k per minute, and the daily essentials would cost about 5k to 10k per minute. They had a lot of talent they had Kevin Hart, Chrissy Tegan, Chance the Rapper. I mean, the talent roster was impressive, I guess, depending on who you are. But the reason I bring it up is because I feel like Quibi was a bit before its time, but I don't think it's promise or I don't think its pitch was essentially wrong. I've been reading a bunch of articles about how people are consuming media, movies and longer for media on TikTok and it just... I don't know, I feel like the concept was there maybe the pitch and the money wasn't. The reason I say this is because I was reading this piece about kind of the end of the era style articles which was talking about BuzzFeed and vice etc, which we'll get back to. And Quibi was on this list of well funded flameouts. So you had Theranos you had FTX, Celsius you had other random startups with crazy names and Quibi and I don't know I feel like people aren't giving Quibi enough credit for kind of like setting the stage curious if you guys had any takes there.

Trey

Yeah, I really miss Pillow Talk by Demi Lovato her talk show that moved to the Roku channel.

Eli

Because it was such a snooze?

Trey

Yeah. They also had potty talk not to be confused with pillow talk. Yeah, Chrissy's court, Chrissy Teigen court show that was a huge hit. But probably my favorite was and I'm being completely earnest here. Fierce Queens, the...

Eli

Did you actually watch it?

Trey

I actually watched Fierce Queens. The Reese Witherspoon narrated National Geographic, Planet Earth esque eight minute long, like nature show. It had it all, it had high def video on your 8 inch iPhone screen. It had riveting commentary from Miss Reese Witherspoon herself, who became single after her rocky divorce with her husband, that many attribute to Quibi. Quibi killed their relationship.

Eli

Wow.

Trey

That's a story for another day. No, this was actually a really good show. It was really entertaining and taught me a lot about animals. Can I recite any facts from that show? No. But very fun watch. Miss her.

Eli

Yeah, I mean, a lot of this was sparked A. by that piece about like well funded startups that eventually fizzled out or crashed violently. But also this piece about, I think it was in polygon. It says TikToks viral movie clips are changing how I watch films. And there's, I think, a huge subsection of people on TikTok, who literally watch full feature movies and like, you'll be prompted on your screen to turn your phone. And they'll just watch whatever in two minute bites or something.

Clara

Well, I mean, I'll be I'll be completely honest, that I was never, I never watched anything on Quibi. So I'm sort of speaking from, I don't know, my assessment of it outside looking in. But I do think with Quibi, it's like, maybe one of the reasons it didn't hit was it was like the most intellectualized version of something that is a true insight, if that makes sense. Like it is a true insight that more and more people are watching TV on their phone, more and more people are watching like clips of stuff on their phone, watching sports highlights on their phone, like those are all true things. But it doesn't mean people want content created for a phone, you know what I'm like. I think that there's a pretty substantial gap between the type of person like I would say, I'm the type of person that's like watching the VPR finale via TikTok, you know, but I want to watch Vanderpump Rules, I don't want to watch like, the low like the Quibi version of Vanderpump Rules. You know what I mean? Where I feel like, does that make sense, though, that like, you don't want more content, necessarily. It's just you want to watch the stuff you want to watch through the medium that you prefer to watch things in or like is most convenient to you. So I don't know that I agree that like Quibi, if it dropped this year, would necessarily work, I feel like it would come down a lot to I don't know if people have appetite for the content, because it was just kind of it felt like a bit that, like, oh, we're gonna make all of this stuff. And it's going to be so compelling to watch on your phone. But I just I don't know, I don't feel that I agree with that.

Trey

The other part of it that I think is really important to mention, is what it did, right. And in this current landscape where there's like this stratification happening of all of our different shows and properties going to different streaming services. So you have to have HBO Max to watch Succession, Apple TV to watch Silo, you know,

Eli

What is at Silo?

Trey

I'll tell you about it later. But, you know, you have all these different streaming services to watch your favorite shows. And what Quibi did well, even though, you know, most of it was original content was brought back that element of discovery that I think is missing from at least a lot of young people's lives. And I think Pluto TV does a really good job of that, that mimics the kind of channel changing mechanic of like flipping through the channels to discover something that you might not otherwise have landed upon. Because if you do go on TikTok, you know, everyone is talking about the Vanderpump Rules finale or whatever, you know. Or else it's like, this show is not getting paid enough attention, and you have to watch it, you know, but there's never any kind of like, how do I come to a new program on my own and it feels like I really did discover something myself in the way that you'd like happen to find a book at a library which also was probably foreign to a lot of young people. To tag on to this, other interesting thing about Quibi, why it failed after a 90 day free trial period, there are two different subscription prices to keep your Quibi going. And, you know, it's already an uphill battle, getting people to adopt a net new app to download. And then, you know, make them pay for a pillow talk with Demi Lovato for $4.99 a month, which is insane.

Clara

I mean, to your point, though, I do think that there's something about this. I mean, do you guys watch the Amazon on Freebie? No, no?

Trey

I did watch. I did watch Jury Duty on there.

Clara

Yeah, no, I'm a huge like Hollywood house lift with Jeff Lewis. There's like a whole Antiques Roadshow channel. It only plays Antiques Roadshow, there's an axe logging channel. So it's like swamp loggers, plus mountain loggers. They just play it on a 24/7 loop. And I feel like that where it's on your TV, it's completely like if you have whatever Amazon Prime video already. It's a free live TV channel. They have their own original programming, plus the sort of like classic ambient TV shows like there's a Baywatch channel like all of those sorts of like syndicated types of things that you used to get if you had cable. But I feel like and I don't know, maybe if had Quibi launched today, hypothetically, maybe it would have been sort of more of that balance of old and new because I think when it comes to kind of discovery too, I feel like the first sometimes it's talent that draws you in, but then sometimes it's just like, I don't know you're sitting in your house and you want something that's not necessarily like a star studded, whatever. We're like all of Quibi's from the sounds of them. They're just like heavy hitting talent, heavy hitting queens, fierce nature, queens just slaying in the wild.

Eli

I will say that was sparked, I was reading. In Chuck Klosterman's the 90s Clara's oft cited favorite book. Talking about Crystal Pepsi. And start out the chapter by saying do consumers demand what they want? Or are they convinced to want whatever they're offered? That was like, hmm, maybe, they just weren't convinced about Quibi yet, and maybe now they're assumed demanding it? Who knows signing off on that point. Anyway, next part of the agenda. I want to talk about Vice and I'm particularly curious from both of your standpoints coming from editorial backgrounds. So I'm sure you both have thoughts there. But just rewinding a bit, this past month has been marked by the collapse of some very high profile media behemoth one might say that were once billed as the future of media. So BuzzFeed, which kind of closed it Buzz, didn't kind of it did close Buzzfeed News. BuzzFeed was once valued at $1.5 billion, almost bought out by Disney. More recently, though Vice which was at one point valued at $5.7 billion declared bankruptcy. I feel like Vice is at one point one of the more notable entities out there, dispatches from North Korea, frontlines in the war of terror. My favorite that classic noisy episode were Thomas Morton faces of blunt and just he's like so unbelievably high and uncomfortable. But yeah, they raised almost two bill from a lot of investors, including Disney and Fox, while expanding into digital and video. So I'm curious to get your guys's take here shocked? Sad, not at all. What do you think?

Trey

I think it was very of its time when it first launched and was a physical magazine that was you know, in every hipster cafe and American Apparel nation and globally wide. And at that point, it was like truly unlike anything else. And there was a specific section I forgot the name of it where they would like take photos of like just random strangers and roast their outfits, which you just can't do these days, but it was so funny and like you'd pick it up for just a specific reason. But they got you know, they just ballooned too quickly. And I think that I forget like the actual founder name not Gavin McInnes, but the other dude. Shane Smith, I think just got like, too high on his own supply as they say and you know, they did like introduce VICE News to kind of get clickbait stuff going when that was like a thing and you know, 2015 era and then pivoted to the HBO deal and did like TV documentaries and stuff and like, thought that would kind of keep things afloat for a while and at some point, there's just so many stakeholders, you know, willing there to be profit and he couldn't keep up with it and he was like, busy jetskiing anyway, like near his LA pad or something. So I think it's just like classic case of like, an egomaniac, you know, builds company and destroys it. But I have many fond memories of Vice.

Clara

I know, as do I honestly, I mean, I agree with your point Trey, from like the egomaniac standpoint, I do think like it had, like, in its heyday, or whatever. And this is maybe, you know, giving it either too much or too little credit. But it was kind of like the Gonzo of like the internet generation, you know, it was like very, like no holds barred. You had I mean, the classic sort of like, Vice template article of like, sending some random guy to like go interview drug cartel members, like it actually was kind of insane in retrospect.

Trey

While on acid himself

Clara

While on acid and then like, yeah, whatever. And then just reading that entire article, or like watching that entire, like mini series. So it was I mean, in retrospect, I mean, problematic or impressive, however you personally feel towards it. But I think it also is sort of a bygone era like the Gawkers of the world, which sort of like tried and almost succeeded and like coming back for a new period of time, but I think that there has just been, and I think it's hard to really put a finger on, you know, when and where this happened, but just like a shift in that type of internet reporting, if that makes sense. And I don't know, looking back, and this is kind of a wild comparison, but like the decline of Man Repeller. I feel like that was like the first time I don't know if you guys remember with like, Leandra. And there was all this drama about, like, the internal machinations of that organization. And like, how it had either, you know, kept people out and been very exclusive, the way that it was sort of out of touch from a class standpoint, but I feel like it, in my mind, at least, was like the first of those like, media reckonings. And from there, it's kind of just been like, a slow, sad decline, but I don't know what's next. We discussed it in the Brian Morrison podcast slightly.

Eli

I mean, I think from a business standpoint, it's similar. And slightly similar to BuzzFeed. I think BuzzFeed is problem was that it relied a lot on distribution, particularly across social and when that failed, their whole thing was like, what do we have now? I think Vice was, like, trying to do too many things, probably, and grew so large, that it was nothing at all, like, you get so big, you spread yourself too thin, that you don't necessarily, like, stand for something sounds a bit too dramatic. But, like, if you're everything to everyone, that you're not really anything, you know.

Clara

Well, I mean, what I do think is funny with Vice and Gawker to an extent and Man Repeller, which is why I brought it up, is I think, like, even though those particular organizations have kind of like fallen apart a little bit, I think they did influence pretty heavily, like a whole generation of like, sort of self started media people, like, I don't know if we can, whatever happened to this guy, but like, the Channel Five dude is like, very clearly like a sort of Vice, next gen type of thing. You know, like, you have these sort of like on the ground reporter people, you have these like fashion girlies who clearly you know, like all people have a certain, who grew up reading it and like, aspiring to work there. Same with like BuzzFeed, where they were kind of like, the shiny castle in the distance of like, when you grow up, like this is where you'll work. And so I think it's interesting to just thinking from like, a, what's next standpoint that I think a lot of people were at the time inspired by the heyday of these things, and not necessarily want to bring them back. But I don't think we've seen the end of like, guy on acid goes to a drug cartel, like maybe it's just on Quibi. You know what I mean, like, maybe the format changes, but like, it's not going to be. Do you know what I mean though? I think, like, there's been sort of a desire to go back to that, but not really knowing how.

Eli

Yeah, I mean, I think I think stylistically and editorially, it totally helped to inform kind of like the next gen channel fives. Like I'm not even going to loop side talk but the kind of like individual reporters that slightly outside of the mainstream, it's like, edgy is probably the wrong word. But from a business standpoint, I think it's just characteristic of like grew too big was relying way more on easy money and when you aren't turning a profit, like an investor's coming to get their money back eventually your whole thing kind of tanks it's you know, castle made a sand type of deal. The lesson take the offer for what however many billions of dollars when you're when you're when you're given it, but yeah, Trey sorry, go ahead.

Trey

No, no, I'm just gonna say there was like a very famous clip of David Carr, who used to be like the public editor of the New York Times before long, long before Ben Smith, but was very like infamous or has no holds barred, kind of takes on things and he has a really good a clip from the documentary page one about the making of The New York Times where he like, confronts Vice, the Vice guys. Again I forgot his name. What's his name?

Eli

Shane Smith?

Trey

Yeah, Shane Smith. And he's like, you guys are like these Gonzo journalists who parachute into these random countries and like hold a camera and think you're doing a journalism. It's like, so cool to kind of like, see him eviscerate their whole business model. He's like, you're not appealing to young people. You have to, like, do better at you know, what you do best. And I think like, after that kind of clip came out, I think it was like before the advent of like real VICE News and stuff and their whole kind of Gonzo HBO stuff. So I just you know, that that clip was just like worth watching for fun. But yeah, I do kind of think it is just like we said kind of a case where there was just too much. It was like too big to fail, and then it failed.

Eli

Yeah. I mean, I think what it shows is that probably again, and I feel like we've talked about this with Brian Morrissey but a shift so probably more smaller and more niche platforms. You're reliant on kind of like the edit-fluence, or I suppose you have a cast of individuals who are known to a specific audience for it's just like, whatever the 50 like Vassar grads who you send into Damascus.

Trey

Well, yeah, it is interesting, though, like, to Clara's point about, there's still appetite or desire for this kind of content, like, LadBible still exists. And like Andrew Tate was a big thing until he wasn't, you know, there's always going to be like these kinds of people who do this style of content, like the last Jackass movie was a huge hit at the box office. I just think it's hard to figure out how to like profit from that. Nobody really has yet, have they?

Eli

Speaking of profit, though. The Super Mario movie, it broke an all time, the debut broke all time record for an animated movie on opening weekend. This is a month ago. Figures from an article updated a couple weeks ago said the project's already raked in a billion dollars. And I want to talk about this from the standpoint of both, like the continued reliance on expanding and recycled IP. Obviously, this is a movie that is based off of a very famous video game. And also the video game of it all. I feel like for a long time, translating a video game into movies and TV shows were doomed to fail. But Super Mario Bros. Slightly different we also have The Last of Us, etc. Before that, Trey, I want to get your thoughts because you had searing, searing takes when we're discussing this via Slack. So I want to hear what you have to say about the whole thing before we dive in.

Trey

Yeah, well, first of all, let me just shout out all of the people on our staff who were like Super Mario Bros, awesome movie, you have to go like, run, don't walk. And I was like, Okay, I trust these people's opinions. Let me head to the cinema. And like it was like a lobotomy Friday. I just wanted like a super comfortable recliner seat at the AMC. And I swear to God, I'm a very patient person when it comes to bad movies. Like I will watch something until it's like half an hour past when you shouldn't stop watching something.

Eli

So you enjoyed Avatar 2?

Trey

I loved Avatar 2! Way of the Water, Eywa all that. But this, I'm telling you, I had to leave the theater I had to get up out of the theater. It was so painstaking to watch like the faux-ChatGPT dialog play out on screen between these like lifeless characters who have been warped from their original like, you know, roles. You know, like Princess Peach was formerly and well known to be like, demure. You know very damsel in distress-esque in Super Mario Bros. The film she's obviously rewritten for a new audience to be like this badass, take no prisoners feminist character who like shows Mario how to do a lot of the things he hasn't had to do. I mean, you know, cool if that's your thing, I just like, don't get it. But more than anything, it was just the writing was just awful. I was like this seems like it's made specifically for a global audience who doesn't speak English and can still understand what's going on here.

Eli

But isn't that kind of indicative of the whole like reliance on these franchises? Like this is the type of movie that gets made now it is clearly been made and formatted in a lab of corporate execs who have come out of the equation of success, which doesn't necessarily rely on, you know, this type of advanced storytelling anymore. It's like they're building with giant Lego blocks.

Trey

There's like advanced storytelling, though. And then there's just like any storytelling and theres no storytelling here.

Eli

He's based in Brooklyn, what do you mean?

Clara

Oh my god. I mean, I didn't watch the Mario Brothers movie. So I can't speak to the, like, artistic value of it, I guess. But it was sort of giving you a little bit like made in a petri dish type of thing, where it's like, if consumer insights made a movie, you know, which is like, honestly...

Eli

Of course but that's how everything is made now.

Clara

But it is like, yes, to an extent. But it's like, there's a difference between what that feels like when it's the super Mario's movie. And what that feels like when it's like Mission Impossible seven, or whatever is coming out with Tom Cruise in the summer. You know, where it's like, Mission Impossible seven, I would like whatever it's going to be not. Is it going to be like amazing. Is the script going to be amazing? No, but there will be action sequences, Tom Cruise will do something, you know, like, there's like, you know, what you're getting, which is what I think the beauty of a franchise is where it's like, you go, it's reliably violent, it's reliably ridiculous. Tom Cruise never dies. He just stands there looking like a wax figure. You know what is going to happen. But I feel like with the Super Mario Brothers movies, where they sort of like pull something like out of, I don't know, some godforsaken part of the franchise, and then try to like, build a world around it. Like what Trey is saying it's like very hit or miss. And you're also counting a lot on people's like, pre existing nostalgia for those characters. And then you go and warp it like you make Princess Peach, like, Princess warrior or whatever. And it's like, well, I didn't come because I wanted Princess Peach to like, tell me how to be an empowered woman. Like I came because I want to see like Princess Peach. Like, you disappoint the people who are your fans, you're not doing fan service. Whereas Mission Impossible. You can say what you want. And you can say what you want about Top Gun Maverick. But that was like fan service at its highest and best use. I was like, there's nothing there's no agenda I want I don't need to know who the bad guy is. I don't need to know why it's important to blow up this box in the middle of like, ambiguous mountain range. It's just purely like I want to see planes go fast. But like, for whatever reason, some of these movies just don't give you like planes going fast. They don't give you Mario popping out of pipes and stuff. It's like becomes, you know what I mean? Like riddled with let's rebrand for the next generation. And it's like...

Eli

Yeah, wait, I don't remember Mario and Luigi going to the DSA meeting in Bushwick. What is that? Yeah, I mean, I agree, though, I think. So from like a franchise and IP perspective. I thought it was interesting. But another reason I want to talk about it is because I feel like video games kind of had a slump post pandemic, right? Everyone's like, oh my god, these fortnight, concerts, and yada, yada. They're huge. They're going to be the future. And then when everyone like was able to touch grasp, like, Okay, wait, I don't want to stay inside play, whatever, all day. But there's a couple new games and also the kind of like translations, from video games to TV and movies that have consistently jumped up hype, and I feel like video games are going to start to be like, kind of a locus point of popular culture and the next whatever, year or so. I don't necessarily think it's tied tied to Mario. But Zelda for instance, there's a new Spider Man game coming out. GTA is about to pop off as well. So I feel like there's gonna be tons and tons of hype and money around video games. And lastly, I don't know if Dungeons and Dragons was a video game, or it's just a board game. But I think there is a cross over.

Trey

Yeah, I'm just curious if the Super Mario Bros movie is the result of us seeing, you know, huge blockbuster that had a WGA writers room involved, then I'm pretty concerned what we're getting if there's a WGA strike.

Eli

Yeah, but I think that as part of the strike was because of the fact that they were all crunched for time. Like, all of these platforms and companies are coping with like declining audiences and money and as a result are trying to squeeze more out of all these writers for less. And what you get is like, you know, ChadGPT adjacent content that can be turned into a billion dollar Nintendo franchise money signs in the eyes of all the executives but like, at what cost? Blisters on my hand from writing Marios lines.

Clara

I mean, I do think it will be I mean, as someone who is sort of a pandemic era video games person, I think that a lot of the most interesting like, I didn't give I guess video games storytelling enough credit before I started playing them. And I think that they do have like very rich worlds and very complex characters oftentimes, like when you're talking about like the sort of like prestige-ish genre or even just like, you know, running gun type of video games. I think that they're kind of very right for franchising in the sense that like the you get both a very fresh and rich new IP for people who aren't familiar with the video game and you get to tap into this audience. So it's like, kind of feels like, whatever, like a goldmine for these people. But I think at the same time, the video game writers aren't necessarily on strike, but there's, I don't know, there's something to be said for that hostile and toxic work environment as well. Which has sort of faded out of the spotlight somewhat recently. But I remember like, they haven't talked about, I think it was like around when Cyberpunk came out, remember, like the Keanu Reeves video game and it was a complete and utter disaster. And it was a similar thing of like, all these people crunched for time, the studio trying to push to get it out, like at peak timing. And now it's out and people whatever they fix the bugs and everyone's happy. But I'm sure that there will be a video or not a video like a film TV miniseries adaptation or that sometime soon for more underpaid writers to work on. And so dragon eats its own tail.

Trey

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm it's weird that like, they haven't figured out this circular economy of releasing the video game, making the TV show or movie out of it. And then releasing the resulting video game from the TV and movie and then making a new show out of it. Like it just feels like it sells itself.

Eli

I think they have I think the thing is that they were all like flops, like there was remember that Halo had a show on Paramount plus, I think and it was like, just awful.

Trey

I wonder though, did it? Did they follow the story? Because like, I think there is now so much evidence and maybe I'm wrong here that like, all you have to do is write what you see happening in the video game and it will be entertaining. But they like are like okay, that's a great basis. Even though hundreds of hours of work went into this amazing visual world of a video game. Let's add new personalities and different storylines that fans do not want or ask for into these movies. Why was why was Sonic? I don't know. I didn't watch Sonic but like...

Eli

What's all this creative autonomy? Yeah.

Trey

Right. I'm like, I would be so happy if the Barbie movie was just like her in Ken walking around looking cute. Not really talking much. That's all we need. That's all we need. And then for the sequel, you went up it get Barbie to jump out of a plane like Tom Cruise. Like there's so many directions you can take it once you've slowly like solidified what your fan base is asking for. Which is just the basic, bare minimum.

Eli

The Barbie, the Barbie scientology crossover that we're waiting for.

Trey

It's the same thing though. When you go to a concert of your fav and you're waiting for that one hit song they have and you know, they performed it 1000 times. And suddenly at your concert they're like, I'm gonna do this a little differently. And you're like f**k sakes, I just want to hear how it regularly sounds! Why do you gotta.

Eli

Well I don't know. I'll probably watch Super Mario Bros when it comes out on whatever streaming platform. They're doing that but...

Trey

We'll circle back with our revised take then.

Eli

When it comes out on Quibi.

Clara

I'll watch it on TikTok.

Eli

You'll watch it on TikTok. I'll watch it on Quibi.

Clara

Yeah, exactly. Perfect.

Eli

Thanks for listening in. Be sure to check out more on d1a.com/perspectives. And sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter to get the latest trends and insights directly to your mailbox.